1
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,067
And now I'm so excited to
introduce you to the two

2
00:00:13,067 --> 00:00:14,439
speakers this evening.

3
00:00:14,439 --> 00:00:16,760
Florangela Davila is the
executive editor and

4
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,079
executive director at
South Seattle Emerald.

5
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,088
She's earned regional and
national awards for her work as

6
00:00:22,088 --> 00:00:25,396
the former race and immigration
reporter for

7
00:00:25,396 --> 00:00:28,702
the Seattle Times and she's
also led teams at Cascade PBS

8
00:00:28,702 --> 00:00:32,219
and at KNKX. And a person who
needs very little introduction.

9
00:00:32,219 --> 00:00:32,676
Katie B.

10
00:00:32,676 --> 00:00:35,024
Wilson has served as
mayor of Seattle since

11
00:00:35,024 --> 00:00:38,024
January of 2026, and she's
the co-founder of the Transit

12
00:00:38,024 --> 00:00:41,219
Riders Union, leading the
organization for over a decade.

13
00:00:41,219 --> 00:00:44,314
She approaches her role of
mayor from the perspective

14
00:00:44,314 --> 00:00:47,201
of a coalition builder and
has assembled a diverse

15
00:00:47,201 --> 00:00:50,158
and experienced team ready
to deliver responsible

16
00:00:50,158 --> 00:00:51,740
and effective governance.

17
00:00:51,740 --> 00:01:01,600
Please join me in
welcoming Mayor Wilson and

18
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,200
Florengela to the stage.

19
00:01:08,980 --> 00:01:10,772
Good evening.

20
00:01:10,772 --> 00:01:16,296
Hello. I think you are
all the coolest people

21
00:01:16,296 --> 00:01:22,257
in person and the ones on live
stream because it's six o'clock

22
00:01:22,257 --> 00:01:26,218
on a Friday and you're here
and that says a lot about our

23
00:01:28,299 --> 00:01:32,242
I said yes to having this
conversation in this

24
00:01:32,242 --> 00:01:36,185
format because I'm still
trying to figure out

25
00:01:36,185 --> 00:01:38,260
who this mayor is right.

26
00:01:38,260 --> 00:01:39,418
She's new to us.

27
00:01:39,418 --> 00:01:41,558
It hasn't even been 100 days.

28
00:01:41,558 --> 00:01:44,680
I think you're two weeks
short of 100 days.

29
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,501
And you have the power to
influence how my life is going

30
00:01:49,501 --> 00:01:52,180
to be and my family's life here

31
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,358
I'm also on behalf of the
South Seattle Emerald,

32
00:01:59,358 --> 00:02:01,543
We love different
perspectives and voices

33
00:02:01,543 --> 00:02:03,000
and bringing them together.

34
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,780
So in this space, I'm
excited to listen.

35
00:02:07,780 --> 00:02:11,620
But first, I'm going to talk.

36
00:02:11,620 --> 00:02:12,497
Two things.

37
00:02:12,497 --> 00:02:14,520
These aren't normal times.

38
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,299
And I will say that I carry
my federal ID and not too

39
00:02:19,299 --> 00:02:21,979
long ago had to present it to

40
00:02:23,438 --> 00:02:29,438
some immigration folks and had
that fear and actually wrote

41
00:02:29,438 --> 00:02:34,419
some things down in case
for For whatever reason,

42
00:02:34,419 --> 00:02:36,639
I would not come home.

43
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:43,804
I also still carry with me the
sound of hearing a mother's

44
00:02:43,804 --> 00:02:49,340
wail hours after finding
out her child was killed.

45
00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:53,691
I live, it's like a four minute,
two minutes maybe if I drive

46
00:02:53,691 --> 00:02:58,411
fast from the site at Henderson
and Rainier where the

47
00:02:58,411 --> 00:03:04,840
shootings of two Rainier Beach
kids happened in January.

48
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:11,199
And for those of you who have
experienced gun violence, that

49
00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:16,247
is as intimate as has happened
to me in terms of hearing

50
00:03:16,247 --> 00:03:21,098
somebody's wail, the wail of a
mother, it will stay with you.

51
00:03:21,098 --> 00:03:25,604
So I'm, I really appreciate
having this chance to talk to

52
00:03:25,604 --> 00:03:28,889
you about an issue that
is very controversial.

53
00:03:28,889 --> 00:03:31,239
People have very
passionate opinions about

54
00:03:31,239 --> 00:03:34,399
and so I promise we will give
you all time to talk and listen

55
00:03:34,399 --> 00:03:37,658
because that's what I was told
that you really want to hear

56
00:04:02,919 --> 00:04:04,960
>> Thank you.

57
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,180
Thank you all for being here.

58
00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:10,568
As Florangela said, I thought
it was important to have an

59
00:04:10,568 --> 00:04:14,032
in-person town hall style
discussion about this because

60
00:04:14,032 --> 00:04:17,276
I think sometimes the
decisions of elected officials

61
00:04:17,276 --> 00:04:18,720
can feel kind of remote.

62
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,627
I really do just want a chance
to be able to be here in

63
00:04:21,627 --> 00:04:24,800
person and explain
and also listen.

64
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,778
Yeah, I mean, I think during
the campaign last year, this

65
00:04:27,778 --> 00:04:30,978
became an issue when the city
council was considering an

66
00:04:30,978 --> 00:04:34,699
expansion of the surveillance
pilot, the CCTV surveillance

67
00:04:34,699 --> 00:04:37,853
pilot. And, I mean,
I would say before

68
00:04:37,853 --> 00:04:40,819
that, I was kind of aware of
issues around surveillance

69
00:04:40,819 --> 00:04:43,720
had never really done a
deep dive or and didn't

70
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,620
really have like a super
well formulated kind

71
00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:51,509
of personal set of values or
opinion other than kind of

72
00:04:51,509 --> 00:04:55,139
general skepticism of like I
don't really want to live in a

73
00:04:55,139 --> 00:04:59,060
society that's got cameras on
every street quarter and you

74
00:04:59,060 --> 00:05:01,300
know hadn't really dug deep on
like okay what how do these

75
00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:02,540
cameras work what are they used
for?

76
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,000
What are the arguments for them?

77
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,096
And so but during the campaign
this issue came up where

78
00:05:09,096 --> 00:05:13,153
you know we have this pilot
which went into effect April of

79
00:05:13,153 --> 00:05:17,180
last year where we have these
cameras in three neighborhoods

80
00:05:17,180 --> 00:05:19,915
in Seattle and then the City
Council was considering

81
00:05:19,915 --> 00:05:22,338
this expansion into
three more neighborhoods

82
00:05:22,338 --> 00:05:26,435
And there was a public outcry
led by immigrants rights

83
00:05:26,435 --> 00:05:30,985
groups and civil liberties
groups because of the perceived

84
00:05:30,985 --> 00:05:35,353
dangers that the data could
fall into the hands of federal

85
00:05:35,353 --> 00:05:39,540
authorities and be used for
immigration enforcement.

86
00:05:39,540 --> 00:05:42,596
So at that point during
the campaign, I repeatedly

87
00:05:42,596 --> 00:05:45,579
expressed concerns about
that potential misuse

88
00:05:45,579 --> 00:05:49,800
of that data and
lack of security.

89
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,096
And then of course I was
successful in my election and

90
00:05:53,096 --> 00:05:56,569
I'm now in a position where I
can actually make decisions

91
00:05:56,569 --> 00:06:00,360
that influence right whether
whether this expansion happens

92
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,026
And what the future is
of the kind of use of

93
00:06:04,026 --> 00:06:06,399
surveillance in Seattle.

94
00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:09,889
And so then being in that
position I realized that I

95
00:06:09,889 --> 00:06:13,629
really needed to do a deeper
dive right because now not

96
00:06:13,629 --> 00:06:17,454
just being in a position where
I'm arguing with another

97
00:06:17,454 --> 00:06:21,276
candidate on the debate stage
but actually able to take

98
00:06:21,276 --> 00:06:25,100
an action that is going to
impact people's daily lives.

99
00:06:26,286 --> 00:06:27,286
I really felt the need to
understand

100
00:06:27,603 --> 00:06:30,603
What is the impact of that
descision going to be?

101
00:06:30,872 --> 00:06:32,992
>> Confront your own skepticism
that you had earlier?

102
00:06:32,992 --> 00:06:35,903
>> Yeah, exactly. And

103
00:06:35,927 --> 00:06:39,499
also, I mean, I think also just
coming from, again from

104
00:06:39,499 --> 00:06:42,266
the campaign to a position where
now, you know I am representing

105
00:06:42,333 --> 00:06:45,137
the City of Seattle. Just a
higher level

106
00:06:45,228 --> 00:06:48,228
of need to really understand
the variety of perspectives

107
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,980
that people are bringing to this
issue and to really

108
00:06:51,980 --> 00:06:54,459
engage with the different
constituencies that have -- you

109
00:06:54,459 --> 00:06:57,540
know, this is a controversial
issue -- have very, very, very

110
00:06:57,540 --> 00:07:00,379
different opinions about the
utility of the cameras, about

111
00:07:00,379 --> 00:07:03,300
the risks involved and about
whether this is a direction that

112
00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:06,379
the city should be going in
our approach to public safety.

113
00:07:06,379 --> 00:07:10,439
>> So what was your approach in
learning and in gathering those

114
00:07:10,439 --> 00:07:13,100
perspectives? I would
imagine you did a lot

115
00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,500
of reading and you looked at
all the decisions and all the

116
00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:20,540
legislation and all the comments
and things from the past.

117
00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:23,084
But then what were the face
to face and what were the

118
00:07:23,084 --> 00:07:26,901
experiences and tell us a little
bit about the differences

119
00:07:26,901 --> 00:07:32,160
because it's such a polarized
conversation about whether this

120
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,000
technology is necessary, what
is critical, what is the

121
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,360
harm that could be caused.

122
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,615
Yeah and I think like part
of what makes this such a

123
00:07:38,615 --> 00:07:41,199
hard conversation is because
there are these different

124
00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:43,894
goals and values that can feel
kind of incommensurate kind

125
00:07:43,894 --> 00:07:45,160
of like apples and oranges.

126
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,028
So on the one hand you have
you know public safety and

127
00:07:49,028 --> 00:07:51,100
accountability for crime.

128
00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:55,300
And the argument is that
cameras and surveillance

129
00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:59,000
can be effective in
preventing crime as part

130
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,920
of the argument and in
solving crime once it occurs.

131
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,661
And it's complex because
actually assessing

132
00:08:07,661 --> 00:08:11,600
whether that is the case
in practice is actually

133
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,300
really difficult.

134
00:08:12,300 --> 00:08:14,990
There's a lot of research but
this is like a real world

135
00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:18,846
experiment and there's so many
factors that influence crime

136
00:08:18,846 --> 00:08:23,019
rates over any period of time
or within a given city that

137
00:08:23,019 --> 00:08:26,906
the evidence is like kind
of murky on whether cameras

138
00:08:26,906 --> 00:08:29,379
actually deter or prevent crime.

139
00:08:29,379 --> 00:08:31,747
And you know there's some
studies which suggest

140
00:08:31,747 --> 00:08:33,759
they do others that
suggest oh maybe not.

141
00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:35,793
You know what I've seen
from both the research

142
00:08:35,793 --> 00:08:37,879
and the way that the
cameras are used in Seattle

143
00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:43,418
is that they can be are
useful in solving crime.

144
00:08:43,418 --> 00:08:45,700
So that's kind of like
one one side of this.

145
00:08:46,778 --> 00:08:50,149
But then on the other side you
have the risk right and you

146
00:08:50,149 --> 00:08:53,500
know the risk the risk and also
the just the concerns generally

147
00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:56,320
about privacy right like what
level of surveillance is kind

148
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,778
of acceptable do we want
to subject ourselves to.

149
00:08:58,778 --> 00:09:01,797
There are some constitutional
questions around that right

150
00:09:01,797 --> 00:09:04,451
around the Fourth Amendment
and the right to not have

151
00:09:04,451 --> 00:09:05,658
no warrantless search.

152
00:09:05,658 --> 00:09:08,445
Beyond that just you know
the risk that when you

153
00:09:08,445 --> 00:09:11,158
centralize the power to
get this information

154
00:09:11,158 --> 00:09:13,235
that that could be misused
whether that's by our

155
00:09:13,235 --> 00:09:15,259
own law enforcement or
by federal authorities

156
00:09:15,259 --> 00:09:19,240
and assessing that level of
risk is really really hard.

157
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,216
And so you have kind of these
different and you know privacy

158
00:09:23,216 --> 00:09:25,985
is of different levels of
importance to different

159
00:09:25,985 --> 00:09:28,123
people so people just end
up having I think a really

160
00:09:28,123 --> 00:09:30,793
different assessments Based
on like what they kind

161
00:09:30,793 --> 00:09:33,743
of care most about about
this issue and add to that

162
00:09:33,743 --> 00:09:37,339
mistrust right because these
technologies are often being

163
00:09:37,339 --> 00:09:40,933
pushed by private companies that
have a profit motive and so

164
00:09:40,933 --> 00:09:44,460
they kind of have an incentive
to oversell what they can do.

165
00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:48,562
And then there's all of the ways
that many of us have mistrust

166
00:09:48,562 --> 00:09:50,778
of our criminal justice system.

167
00:09:50,778 --> 00:09:52,759
So there's just a lot of
layers that mean that

168
00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:55,220
different people coming
from different perspectives

169
00:09:55,220 --> 00:09:57,158
are going to have a very
different calculus.

170
00:09:57,158 --> 00:09:59,341
And even for an individual
trying to decide kind

171
00:09:59,341 --> 00:10:01,980
of like what you think, it
can be a very different kind

172
00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:05,178
of calculus to make to kind of
weigh these different things.

173
00:10:05,178 --> 00:10:06,639
So I feel like I didn't
quite answer your question.

174
00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:07,019
I got off on a tangent.

175
00:10:07,019 --> 00:10:10,298
I mean, it's a you talked
about the layers and it

176
00:10:10,298 --> 00:10:13,580
will probably be circling
back and I'm sure the

177
00:10:13,580 --> 00:10:16,456
questions will also redirect us.

178
00:10:16,456 --> 00:10:19,845
But you mentioned
values and I know that

179
00:10:19,845 --> 00:10:24,114
was brought up I think by
Erica Barnett, I think you're

180
00:10:24,114 --> 00:10:27,125
here at the end of your
presser last week.

181
00:10:27,125 --> 00:10:28,720
But I'm curious about

182
00:10:29,918 --> 00:10:32,956
The skepticism or the questions
you had before you became

183
00:10:32,956 --> 00:10:36,692
mayor and what you were saying
on the campaign and how those

184
00:10:36,692 --> 00:10:40,820
values have or have not changed
as you've been learning

185
00:10:40,820 --> 00:10:45,711
more about surveillance and at
what point when you get input

186
00:10:45,711 --> 00:10:50,581
and you're hearing different
perspectives are your have your

187
00:10:50,581 --> 00:10:54,798
values changed and or what are
the values of Seattle that

188
00:11:25,778 --> 00:11:39,460
I'm a little hesitant
to do a broad strokes.

189
00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:41,394
You know, this is what the
left does because I'm sure

190
00:11:41,394 --> 00:11:43,240
that people will feel that
I'm doing a strong man.

191
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:43,798
But I do think that on the
left, like we need to be

192
00:11:43,798 --> 00:11:44,360
able to say that it is it
is a good thing to solve.

193
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:52,139
>> I think that's a
good thing to do.

194
00:12:03,940 --> 00:12:07,979
But do we know that this that
the CCTV cameras actually

195
00:12:07,979 --> 00:12:11,658
do solve crimes and when
you make the distinction

196
00:12:11,658 --> 00:12:15,340
between say property
crimes and violent crimes.

197
00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:16,720
Is there a difference?

198
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,216
Yeah, and I mean this is
part of why we're doing the

199
00:12:19,216 --> 00:12:20,620
pause right because I think

200
00:12:21,879 --> 00:12:24,908
you know from the information
that SPD has shared about

201
00:12:24,908 --> 00:12:26,820
the way the cameras
are being used.

202
00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:28,980
It's very clear like anecdotally

203
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,471
The cameras are being used to
solve crimes right including

204
00:12:33,471 --> 00:12:35,080
serious crimes like homicides

205
00:12:36,220 --> 00:12:39,557
Now, there's a bigger question
of, you know, how many of these

206
00:12:39,557 --> 00:12:42,278
crimes could not have
been solved without the

207
00:12:42,278 --> 00:12:43,399
cameras, right?

208
00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:45,753
And, and to what extent, I
mean, there's also just like

209
00:12:45,753 --> 00:12:48,802
even if a crime could have been
solved without the cameras, are

210
00:12:48,802 --> 00:12:51,840
we doing it much faster and
with less, you know, manpower

211
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,452
so that now we have police
capacity that can be devoted to

212
00:12:54,452 --> 00:12:57,207
more preventative policing
or other things that we want

213
00:12:57,207 --> 00:12:58,580
police to be doing, right?

214
00:12:58,580 --> 00:13:01,865
So you know, I think there's
from what I've seen, I have

215
00:13:01,865 --> 00:13:05,320
confidence that the cameras are
How useful is solving crimes?

216
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,340
How useful?

217
00:13:06,340 --> 00:13:07,840
What is the magnitude
of that benefit?

218
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,019
That's a question mark.

219
00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:13,566
There's an evaluation going
on now of the camera system

220
00:13:13,566 --> 00:13:16,695
being done by the Office
of the Inspector General

221
00:13:16,695 --> 00:13:18,504
in partnership with
UPenn, which I think is

222
00:13:18,504 --> 00:13:20,240
supposed to be getting
at some of that.

223
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,495
So we will learn something more
through that evaluation about

224
00:13:24,495 --> 00:13:28,379
how the system is being
used How useful it is.

225
00:13:28,379 --> 00:13:32,840
When do we when will that
study that audit be completed

226
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,868
and can you talk a little bit
about the second audit that

227
00:13:36,868 --> 00:13:38,538
you're looking at as well.

228
00:13:38,538 --> 00:13:41,066
Yeah so the this evaluation
I believe is supposed

229
00:13:41,066 --> 00:13:43,099
to be completed kind
of by the end of this

230
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:46,839
year and that was an evaluation
that was planned of this pilot

231
00:13:46,839 --> 00:13:49,480
you know which was begun
last year so that was you

232
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,461
know not something that
that was something

233
00:13:51,461 --> 00:13:54,940
that was already planned by
the time I got into office.

234
00:13:54,940 --> 00:13:58,808
What we are doing that's
new is specifically an

235
00:13:58,808 --> 00:14:02,778
audit around data storage
security and sharing

236
00:14:02,778 --> 00:14:06,331
practices and also kind of
privacy and civil liberties and

237
00:14:06,331 --> 00:14:10,490
that is the one that is
being conducted by NYU

238
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:13,340
policing project.

239
00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:17,398
You spent some time at the
real-time crime center and

240
00:14:17,398 --> 00:14:21,254
in evaluating and looking,
digging through this issue.

241
00:14:21,254 --> 00:14:24,440
I'm wondering if there was
anything that shocked you

242
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,346
or really bothered you
about what you learned.

243
00:14:26,346 --> 00:14:27,519
There's a lot of questions we

244
00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:30,225
don't know which is why
you're pursuing and you want,

245
00:14:30,225 --> 00:14:32,894
but what about things
that you did learn?

246
00:14:32,894 --> 00:14:35,855
Was there anything that stopped

247
00:14:35,855 --> 00:14:37,500
you and upset you?

248
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,514
You mean like concerns
about how the system

249
00:14:39,514 --> 00:14:40,580
works or is being used?

250
00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:41,700
Who's using--

251
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:44,019
Right. How it's being
employed as of now.

252
00:14:44,019 --> 00:14:46,019
Well, and maybe I
should just level set,

253
00:14:46,019 --> 00:14:48,519
because I don't know how much
familiarity everyone here has.

254
00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:53,038
Just like to say something about
how that system is being used.

255
00:14:53,038 --> 00:14:55,639
And I should also say that
in explaining how the

256
00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:58,528
camera system is being used,
I think that it is possible

257
00:14:58,528 --> 00:15:00,519
for us to all get on
the same page about all

258
00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:03,125
of the facts and for people
to feel very different

259
00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:04,399
ways about whether this

260
00:15:06,399 --> 00:15:09,879
City Council surveillance
>> I'm always reluctant

261
00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:10,719
to be like here's how
it works as though I'm

262
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,283
saying if everyone
understood how it worked

263
00:15:13,283 --> 00:15:15,264
they would think it
was fine or something.

264
00:15:15,264 --> 00:15:16,301
I don't think that's the case.

265
00:15:16,301 --> 00:15:19,988
I'm not trying to may
explain the CCTV cameras.

266
00:15:19,988 --> 00:15:24,793
>> I'm wondering as you give
us information if you can also

267
00:15:24,793 --> 00:15:28,418
lay out the wider context
of surveillance in general.

268
00:15:28,418 --> 00:15:31,488
How often so please like
in Seattle like what do we

269
00:15:31,488 --> 00:15:34,368
exactly because I'm sure
that I would imagine that

270
00:15:34,368 --> 00:15:36,740
might have surprised you
and understanding and

271
00:15:36,740 --> 00:15:39,647
realizing oh crap this is
how many cameras there are

272
00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:41,433
and this is what they're doing.

273
00:15:41,433 --> 00:15:44,043
Okay so so in Seattle
so that the CCTV camera

274
00:15:44,043 --> 00:15:46,565
pilot started in I believe
last April

275
00:15:47,047 --> 00:15:51,518
We have 62 cameras located
in three specific high crime

276
00:15:51,518 --> 00:15:53,019
neighborhoods of the city.

277
00:15:53,019 --> 00:15:54,220
There's the North Aurora
corridor,

278
00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:55,989
there's the downtown
business

279
00:15:56,056 --> 00:15:57,221
district concentrated
around Third Ave.

280
00:15:57,221 --> 00:15:59,091
And then there's the Chinatown
International District.

281
00:16:00,024 --> 00:16:04,359
Those cameras feed into the
real time crime center.

282
00:16:04,359 --> 00:16:06,100
They are not monitored
continuously.

283
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:08,168
There's not people
watching camera footage.

284
00:16:08,168 --> 00:16:10,778
That's actually important
because that's a difference.

285
00:16:10,778 --> 00:16:13,783
There actually are other cities
in the United States where they

286
00:16:13,783 --> 00:16:16,197
do more like active monitoring
where there's actually

287
00:16:16,197 --> 00:16:18,399
people just watching the
camera footage continuously.

288
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:19,918
We do not do that here.

289
00:16:19,918 --> 00:16:22,202
And in general, like honestly,
this is something that surprised

290
00:16:22,202 --> 00:16:24,875
me that I've learned over the
last couple of weeks, compared

291
00:16:24,875 --> 00:16:27,678
to like most other major
cities in the US, we have like

292
00:16:27,678 --> 00:16:30,553
very, very little surveillance,
we are on the like very

293
00:16:30,553 --> 00:16:34,311
little surveillance end of the
I'm compared to Boston New York

294
00:16:34,311 --> 00:16:36,932
City San Francisco
Washington DC etc.

295
00:16:36,932 --> 00:16:40,375
But basically so that the
footage is stored like on

296
00:16:40,375 --> 00:16:44,721
site in the camera so it's not
automatically uploaded anywhere

297
00:16:44,721 --> 00:16:48,820
on site in the cameras for five
days after which it's erased.

298
00:16:55,860 --> 00:17:01,072
And I believe the care team can
also request this want to access

299
00:17:01,072 --> 00:17:03,480
that footage, then they can.

300
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:04,920
And this can be
done in real time.

301
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,786
So if there's like a serious
incident, the people in

302
00:17:07,786 --> 00:17:10,586
the real time crime center
can actually tune in and

303
00:17:10,586 --> 00:17:11,919
watch the cameras live.

304
00:17:11,919 --> 00:17:16,957
And they have used this to
apprehend a suspect to just

305
00:17:16,957 --> 00:17:19,817
shot someone or this happens.

306
00:17:19,817 --> 00:17:21,038
I don't know how
often that happens.

307
00:17:21,038 --> 00:17:23,355
So that's a question
that hopefully the

308
00:17:23,355 --> 00:17:24,759
evaluation will get at.

309
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:28,877
But once footage is called up
in response to an incident

310
00:17:28,877 --> 00:17:32,659
it does get uploaded
into evidence.com.

311
00:17:32,659 --> 00:17:35,223
And so this is one of the
points which is a concern

312
00:17:35,223 --> 00:17:37,980
for me because those servers
are in other states and

313
00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:40,865
we don't necessarily know
what the you know how secure

314
00:17:40,865 --> 00:17:43,432
is that data once it's
uploaded to those servers

315
00:17:43,432 --> 00:17:46,382
that's no longer protected
necessarily by Washington

316
00:17:46,382 --> 00:17:47,921
states kind of privacy laws.

317
00:17:47,921 --> 00:17:51,278
So this is one reason why
we're doing this audit the

318
00:17:51,278 --> 00:17:53,118
safety and security audit.

319
00:17:53,118 --> 00:17:58,278
So then, yeah, so that's like
basically how the RTCC works.

320
00:17:58,278 --> 00:18:01,897
And there's no, another thing
that we learned in visiting

321
00:18:01,897 --> 00:18:05,442
the RTCC and you know, actually
big thanks to the staff at the

322
00:18:05,442 --> 00:18:08,479
RTCC who are very welcoming
and like, in explaining how

323
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:09,838
everything works.

324
00:18:09,838 --> 00:18:12,251
You know, they don't
share data with other

325
00:18:12,251 --> 00:18:13,838
law enforcement agencies.

326
00:18:13,838 --> 00:18:16,842
But one thing we learned is that
while that is their practice,

327
00:18:16,842 --> 00:18:20,180
when we checked, that's actually
codified as SPD policy.

328
00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:22,720
The other thing we're doing over
the next few months in addition

329
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,038
to this audit is trying to
codify some of these good

330
00:18:27,038 --> 00:18:30,400
practices into actual policy so
that it's not just dependent on

331
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,877
the judgment of whoever
is running the RTCC.

332
00:18:33,877 --> 00:18:36,979
Another thing is there are
cameras where there might be

333
00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:38,558
an apartment building in view.

334
00:18:38,558 --> 00:18:42,374
There's masking so that you
can't actually see like people's

335
00:18:42,374 --> 00:18:45,098
balconies or people's
windows or whatever.

336
00:18:45,098 --> 00:18:48,170
And there was one camera which
is was near a reproductive

337
00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:50,960
health care and gender
affirming care facility.

338
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,999
That's the one that that
I we are turning off.

339
00:18:53,999 --> 00:18:57,440
But there was also
masking in place on that.

340
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,575
And that's an area where
both I have concerns

341
00:19:00,575 --> 00:19:03,877
around and supposedly we
are told that masking

342
00:19:03,877 --> 00:19:06,951
We can't be undone like if
federal authorities came in like

343
00:19:06,951 --> 00:19:09,876
we can't you can't unwind that
masking but that's something

344
00:19:09,876 --> 00:19:12,538
that we want this security audit
to look at is that actually

345
00:19:12,538 --> 00:19:13,259
the case.

346
00:19:14,259 --> 00:19:17,423
But the masking I believe is
another thing which is a good

347
00:19:17,423 --> 00:19:20,338
practice but which is not
sufficiently codified in policy.

348
00:19:20,338 --> 00:19:23,501
So part of what we're doing is
trying to make sure that we

349
00:19:23,501 --> 00:19:26,722
actually have policies on paper
which provide these protections

350
00:19:26,722 --> 00:19:28,817
as opposed to this just being
like this is happens to

351
00:19:28,818 --> 00:19:30,317
be the way that we do it.

352
00:19:30,318 --> 00:19:34,435
So on that point this is just
the way we happen to do it

353
00:19:34,435 --> 00:19:38,650
we want to codify the policies
in regards to how SPD is

354
00:19:38,650 --> 00:19:41,140
using the monitoring the data.

355
00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:44,298
And I should answer and these
are civilians that you.

356
00:19:44,298 --> 00:19:50,337
OK. But we're talking about SPD
which has its own problems.

357
00:19:50,338 --> 00:19:53,147
I mean why shouldn't there
be a higher barrier,

358
00:19:53,147 --> 00:19:55,959
a higher standard that
we hold SPD accountable

359
00:19:57,078 --> 00:19:59,220
beyond just codifying policies?

360
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:02,817
Like what happens if the
civilians who report

361
00:20:02,817 --> 00:20:06,318
to police officers
decide they're not going

362
00:20:06,318 --> 00:20:07,078
to do it this way?

363
00:20:07,078 --> 00:20:08,318
Then what happens?

364
00:20:08,318 --> 00:20:10,884
I mean I think this is just
why oversight is important

365
00:20:10,884 --> 00:20:12,460
that there be regular basically

366
00:20:23,877 --> 00:20:29,877
>> I think we should
be able to do that.

367
00:20:37,239 --> 00:20:40,403
The times we're living in
the discussion is very

368
00:20:40,403 --> 00:20:44,200
different from when this
technology was first proposed.

369
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,816
Which is where the question
of harm comes in which I

370
00:20:47,816 --> 00:20:51,777
think is is at the root of all
the criticism that is being

371
00:20:51,777 --> 00:20:55,221
levied at like why should
we open the door to this

372
00:20:55,221 --> 00:20:57,460
technology in the first place.

373
00:20:57,460 --> 00:21:01,324
I mean I think it really is that
balance between the benefits

374
00:21:01,324 --> 00:21:04,615
that the system is providing
versus what we believe

375
00:21:04,615 --> 00:21:05,598
the risks to be.

376
00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:08,297
And so the goal here is
to really assess what

377
00:21:08,297 --> 00:21:11,220
those risks are and then
take steps to minimize

378
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:14,423
them and then we have to
balance that against what we

379
00:21:14,423 --> 00:21:16,140
believe the benefits to be.

380
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:18,656
And I mean there's no other
that's how you that's

381
00:21:18,656 --> 00:21:19,980
how we make policy right.

382
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:23,892
And now yeah, I mean we could
decide the risks are too great

383
00:21:23,892 --> 00:21:27,884
and then shut the cameras off,
right, but that's that's the

384
00:21:27,884 --> 00:21:31,877
assessment that we're trying
to make through doing these.

385
00:21:31,877 --> 00:21:35,423
Have you taken public safety
walks or tours on the

386
00:21:35,423 --> 00:21:37,499
ground when you've gone out?

387
00:21:37,499 --> 00:21:41,287
Tell me a little bit about some
of the things that you've been

388
00:21:41,287 --> 00:21:44,999
hearing from the different
people in throughout the city.

389
00:21:44,999 --> 00:21:48,807
And what is what's sitting
with you when you're thinking

390
00:21:48,807 --> 00:21:52,617
with the decision that you
made and announced last week?

391
00:21:52,617 --> 00:21:54,747
Yeah, I mean, you know, I
think my team and I have

392
00:21:54,747 --> 00:21:57,420
talked with a lot of people in
the Chinatown International

393
00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:59,877
District in the, you know,
Capitol Hill Nightlife

394
00:21:59,877 --> 00:22:03,213
District, which is one of the
neighborhoods where cameras were

395
00:22:03,213 --> 00:22:06,298
slated to expand with folks in
around Garfield High School

396
00:22:06,298 --> 00:22:09,909
and the business district
there and, you know, family

397
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:13,679
and, you know, people involved
in the school community.

398
00:22:13,679 --> 00:22:16,409
We had a thousand people
signed a petition from the

399
00:22:16,409 --> 00:22:18,897
Chinatown International
District In favor.

400
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:24,444
So I mean there are strong
feelings on both sides and I

401
00:22:24,444 --> 00:22:28,586
really think like legitimate,
again, because this is such,

402
00:22:28,586 --> 00:22:31,739
you know, we are balancing
these really very real things

403
00:22:31,739 --> 00:22:33,893
on both sides.

404
00:22:33,893 --> 00:22:40,173
And yeah, and I mean,
I think that there's,

405
00:22:40,173 --> 00:22:44,480
you know, there's real time.

406
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,247
So the question is just a
little bit about just some of

407
00:22:48,247 --> 00:22:51,692
the the interactions you've had
either in person or on these

408
00:22:51,692 --> 00:22:54,057
public safety walks, it's
really struck you that sitting

409
00:22:54,057 --> 00:22:57,747
I'm with you like yes this
is actually why I'm going to

410
00:22:57,747 --> 00:23:01,641
announce that we're going to
do these audits that I'm going

411
00:23:01,641 --> 00:23:05,179
to put in the 26 cameras around
the stadium district that

412
00:23:05,179 --> 00:23:07,759
I want to pause right now.

413
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:11,896
Yeah so I mean I think there
is a feeling in neighborhoods

414
00:23:11,896 --> 00:23:15,758
where there is high incidence
of crime and a feeling

415
00:23:15,758 --> 00:23:17,137
of lack of safety.

416
00:23:17,137 --> 00:23:20,739
Many people, not everyone, but
many people, people who live

417
00:23:20,739 --> 00:23:24,327
there, people who work there,
and who see day by day things

418
00:23:24,327 --> 00:23:28,219
happening and often feel that
there's not really a response

419
00:23:28,219 --> 00:23:29,259
to those things, right?

420
00:23:29,259 --> 00:23:33,893
There are assaults happening,
property crime happening, and

421
00:23:33,893 --> 00:23:38,766
this is kind of another question
I think when these cameras were

422
00:23:38,766 --> 00:23:43,700
first discussed and this pilot
was decided upon, it was really

423
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:47,019
-- the public discussion was
really about violent crime.

424
00:23:47,019 --> 00:23:51,630
And I think that there is a
real conversation to be had

425
00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:56,111
about what's the range of
crimes that we actually want to

426
00:23:56,111 --> 00:23:57,679
use these cameras for.

427
00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:00,522
And my understanding from the
way that they're currently being

428
00:24:00,522 --> 00:24:01,346
used in real-time crime
center is that

429
00:24:01,346 --> 00:24:03,910
there's this kind
of triage

430
00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:05,749
So, when there's something,
you know, the most serious

431
00:24:05,749 --> 00:24:07,617
crime going on is what
they're using it for.

432
00:24:07,617 --> 00:24:10,204
But then if there's not any
particularly serious crime going

433
00:24:10,204 --> 00:24:12,692
on, then they might actually,
you know, if someone calls in

434
00:24:12,692 --> 00:24:15,178
and wants to see footage related
to a lower level, you know,

435
00:24:15,178 --> 00:24:17,461
property crime or something,
they will use it, right?

436
00:24:17,461 --> 00:24:20,150
And so that's something
that is, you know, was not

437
00:24:20,150 --> 00:24:23,429
necessarily part of the public
discussion when the cameras

438
00:24:23,429 --> 00:24:26,838
were initially decided upon, but
it is how they're being used.

439
00:24:26,838 --> 00:24:29,794
And it's also if you look at
the research, some of the more

440
00:24:29,794 --> 00:24:33,000
effective use of the cameras is
for more like property crime.

441
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,070
And also they tend to
like to the extent that

442
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:38,118
there's a deterrent effect.

443
00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:41,239
It's often related to property
crime rather than violent crime.

444
00:24:41,239 --> 00:24:43,739
So that's like another big
policy conversation that I think

445
00:24:43,739 --> 00:24:46,493
we need to have is like if we
are going to have these cameras,

446
00:24:46,493 --> 00:24:49,440
do we really just want to use
that for like the most serious

447
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,134
violent crime or are we
comfortable using it for

448
00:24:52,134 --> 00:24:53,617
lower level crime as well.

449
00:24:53,617 --> 00:24:56,280
So anyway, I would say
that a lot of people

450
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,180
in these neighborhoods
where there are high

451
00:25:22,959 --> 00:25:26,202
Good amount of public support
for the cameras from that

452
00:25:26,202 --> 00:25:29,588
perspective and then there is
you know people opposed for

453
00:25:29,588 --> 00:25:32,623
all of the all the reasons
of you know worrying about

454
00:25:32,623 --> 00:25:35,797
what what could happen if
that data gets into the hands

455
00:25:35,797 --> 00:25:37,420
of the federal government.

456
00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:41,239
So the someone to keep
an eye on things.

457
00:25:41,239 --> 00:25:45,192
I lean on technology and
not someone to keep an eye

458
00:25:45,192 --> 00:25:47,219
on things be more police.

459
00:25:47,219 --> 00:25:50,702
Yeah I mean I think so my
personal opinion is that

460
00:25:50,702 --> 00:25:53,925
I think there could be a
role for kind of a narrow

461
00:25:53,925 --> 00:25:57,140
use of these cameras but
we cannot lean on these as

462
00:25:57,140 --> 00:26:01,393
like the main public safety
strategy because they're

463
00:26:01,393 --> 00:26:04,115
just not right and so you
know to the extent that

464
00:26:04,115 --> 00:26:06,298
we're using them and I think
that's again like a kind

465
00:26:06,298 --> 00:26:08,884
Public conversation that we
haven't sufficiently had

466
00:26:08,884 --> 00:26:11,247
like in what circumstances
is this an appropriate

467
00:26:11,247 --> 00:26:12,259
part of the strategy.

468
00:26:13,397 --> 00:26:17,467
That's only a small part of a
larger public safety strategy

469
00:26:17,467 --> 00:26:21,117
and in neighborhoods that
have high levels of crime.

470
00:26:21,117 --> 00:26:24,950
You know, a more consistent
police presence is another part

471
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:28,317
of what a lot of
people are asking for.

472
00:26:28,317 --> 00:26:30,307
And I mean, one of the I've
told the story before, but

473
00:26:30,307 --> 00:26:33,961
one of the things that really
hit me when I talked to youth

474
00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:39,377
in Rainier Beach in the wake of
the shootings down there was

475
00:26:39,377 --> 00:26:42,903
that, you know, these students
were saying like, we want

476
00:26:42,903 --> 00:26:44,778
more police presence, we feel

477
00:26:54,679 --> 00:26:56,993
>> I think that's a whole other
project of trying to provide

478
00:26:56,993 --> 00:26:59,027
the right kind of police
presence in neighborhoods

479
00:26:59,027 --> 00:27:00,962
that need it and make sure
that that is where we're

480
00:27:00,962 --> 00:27:03,326
building that trust between
the police and the communities

481
00:27:03,326 --> 00:27:04,317
that they're serving in.

482
00:27:04,317 --> 00:27:07,422
The right kind of police
presence in neighborhoods

483
00:27:07,422 --> 00:27:09,659
that need it and make
sure that that is

484
00:27:10,837 --> 00:27:13,459
Yeah, where we're building
that trust between between

485
00:27:13,459 --> 00:27:16,077
the police and the communities
that they're serving in

486
00:27:16,077 --> 00:27:20,578
Do you know how much all of
this is gonna cost the audits?

487
00:27:20,578 --> 00:27:25,046
the 26 cameras around the
stadium district if you agree

488
00:27:25,046 --> 00:27:30,239
to expand the pilot program
How much is all of this?

489
00:27:30,239 --> 00:27:33,320
So the I mean the audit
I believe we're keeping

490
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,538
it around $50,000

491
00:27:36,057 --> 00:27:39,511
and that will be that is
coming out of SPD's budget

492
00:27:39,511 --> 00:27:43,219
out of the I think the kind
of camera budget basically

493
00:27:45,577 --> 00:27:48,877
I don't have in my head the
figure for how much the

494
00:27:48,877 --> 00:27:51,230
expansion is costing but

495
00:27:51,597 --> 00:27:57,077
That is money that was
already appropriated by the

496
00:27:57,077 --> 00:28:00,077
city in last year's budget.

497
00:28:00,077 --> 00:28:02,806
Let's talk about the -- I
guess I'll say just to tie

498
00:28:02,806 --> 00:28:05,337
together the cameras and
the kind of other parts of

499
00:28:05,337 --> 00:28:08,113
the public safety strategy,
which of course is not just

500
00:28:08,113 --> 00:28:09,558
increased police presence.

501
00:28:09,558 --> 00:28:12,415
There's a ton of upstream things
that we need to do to reduce

502
00:28:12,415 --> 00:28:15,624
crime and to you know, there's
like environmental interventions

503
00:28:15,624 --> 00:28:18,423
and just ways that we can make
neighborhoods safer and our

504
00:28:18,423 --> 00:28:21,337
alternative response right
there's a lot of pieces to that.

505
00:28:21,337 --> 00:28:25,011
One thing that, you know, if
the cameras are effective

506
00:28:25,011 --> 00:28:28,358
at helping the police to
solve crimes in a way that

507
00:28:28,358 --> 00:28:31,951
means that we are using less
police capacity to solve

508
00:28:31,951 --> 00:28:35,545
those crimes, then that does
free up police capacity

509
00:28:35,545 --> 00:28:37,259
to do these other things.

510
00:28:37,259 --> 00:28:39,442
So I think that is and
again like what is the

511
00:28:39,442 --> 00:28:40,877
magnitude of that benefit?

512
00:28:40,877 --> 00:28:41,357
I don't know.

513
00:28:41,357 --> 00:28:42,739
So that's part of what
we need to find out.

514
00:28:42,739 --> 00:28:46,098
But I do think that that's a
legitimate argument for how even

515
00:28:46,098 --> 00:28:49,223
if the presence of the cameras
does not directly prevent crime,

516
00:28:49,223 --> 00:28:51,598
if you're freeing up police
capacity to do other things

517
00:28:51,598 --> 00:28:55,959
which do prevent crime,
then that is helpful.

518
00:28:55,959 --> 00:28:57,239
The data point.

519
00:28:57,239 --> 00:29:01,121
What is the data point that's
going to tell you that

520
00:29:01,121 --> 00:29:03,337
these things are effective?

521
00:29:03,337 --> 00:29:07,337
Like you talked about crime, but
how much crime is reduction?

522
00:29:07,337 --> 00:29:09,690
How are you going to
know that these are

523
00:29:09,690 --> 00:29:11,159
worth keeping in place?

524
00:29:11,159 --> 00:29:14,789
I mean I think that there's
certainly a like in some of the

525
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:18,392
research that I've seen
around These cameras systems

526
00:29:18,392 --> 00:29:21,660
is a calculation made
around basically what we

527
00:29:21,660 --> 00:29:23,419
were just talking about.

528
00:29:23,419 --> 00:29:26,442
To what extent are these
cameras like freeing up

529
00:29:26,442 --> 00:29:29,919
police capacity and that's
just like a monetary thing.

530
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:36,299
Like are the cameras worth their
cost in terms of what they are

531
00:29:36,299 --> 00:29:40,804
doing to allow us to prevent
and or solve crime in

532
00:29:40,804 --> 00:29:42,617
a way that saves money?

533
00:29:42,617 --> 00:29:44,778
So that is a calculation
that people make.

534
00:29:44,778 --> 00:29:45,778
Now how accurate is it?

535
00:29:45,778 --> 00:29:48,434
I don't know, but I
think that is one thing

536
00:29:48,434 --> 00:29:49,999
that would be relevant.

537
00:29:49,999 --> 00:29:54,661
And I want to get this right,
but I was talking to somebody

538
00:29:54,661 --> 00:29:59,117
who was on your transition
team, a member of the youth and

539
00:29:59,117 --> 00:30:02,411
student group, and they
were telling me that

540
00:30:02,411 --> 00:30:05,804
this was an overwhelming
concern among the younger

541
00:30:05,804 --> 00:30:09,337
population and it made them feel
vulnerable and targeted and

542
00:30:09,337 --> 00:30:12,057
they didn't, weren't
comfortable with this idea.

543
00:30:12,057 --> 00:30:16,597
So how do you juxtapose that
feeling with say the reduction

544
00:30:16,597 --> 00:30:19,631
in crime if you get that
Yeah, I mean, I think again

545
00:30:19,631 --> 00:30:22,346
this is what makes this issue
so hard because people feel

546
00:30:22,346 --> 00:30:25,064
really strongly about it and
people feel strongly about

547
00:30:25,064 --> 00:30:26,220
it on both sides, right?

548
00:30:26,220 --> 00:30:29,121
And so there are people for whom
having those cameras in the

549
00:30:29,121 --> 00:30:32,199
neighborhood where they live or
work makes them feel less safe

550
00:30:32,199 --> 00:30:35,159
and there are people for whom
that makes them feel more safe.

551
00:30:35,159 --> 00:30:39,346
And those feelings are important
because those feelings are like

552
00:30:39,346 --> 00:30:43,000
part of our experience of the
city and our quality of life.

553
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,666
So you know I think
that there's not a way

554
00:30:46,666 --> 00:30:48,778
to make this decision.

555
00:30:48,778 --> 00:30:52,048
It's not really a matter
of like weighing those

556
00:30:52,048 --> 00:30:53,979
feelings against the data.

557
00:30:53,979 --> 00:30:56,682
It's kind of like we're needing
to make a reasoned decision

558
00:30:56,682 --> 00:30:59,000
based on the impact on
people's quality of life and

559
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,380
the feelings are part of that.

560
00:31:00,380 --> 00:31:02,377
But there's feelings
on both sides.

561
00:31:02,377 --> 00:31:04,409
I mean, you know, I don't
know, like, what is a better

562
00:31:04,409 --> 00:31:05,397
way to come to a decision?

563
00:31:05,397 --> 00:31:07,419
Like, we can do we could
do a public vote, right?

564
00:31:08,679 --> 00:31:10,939
And San Francisco recently
did had public votes

565
00:31:10,939 --> 00:31:12,749
on surveillance and
people voted to like

566
00:31:12,749 --> 00:31:14,397
dramatically expand
surveillance and

567
00:31:14,397 --> 00:31:17,358
now they have way more
surveillance than than we do.

568
00:31:17,358 --> 00:31:19,377
So we could go that direction.

569
00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:21,820
But, you know, short of
that, you know, it's

570
00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:23,179
really this kind of like

571
00:31:24,577 --> 00:31:26,679
conversation where we're
weighing a lot of different

572
00:31:26,679 --> 00:31:29,317
things which can
feel Incommenurable.

573
00:31:29,317 --> 00:31:32,689
Incommenurate. Before
you became mayor, did

574
00:31:32,689 --> 00:31:34,640
you feel safe in the city?

575
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,959
Were there places in
the city that you

576
00:31:35,959 --> 00:31:39,739
wouldn't go to at a certain
time of the night, day?

577
00:31:39,739 --> 00:31:47,637
I personally tend to feel
pretty safe anywhere.

578
00:31:47,637 --> 00:31:51,439
But I understand that
other people don't,

579
00:31:51,439 --> 00:31:53,357
and I don't think that
my feeling of being safe

580
00:31:53,357 --> 00:31:55,857
is any more valid
than other people's

581
00:31:55,857 --> 00:31:58,836
I will say that I have had
I have definitely been in

582
00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:02,323
situations where I felt unsafe
and you know riding the bus

583
00:32:02,323 --> 00:32:05,663
or at a you know I remember one
time at the like Soto light

584
00:32:05,663 --> 00:32:09,076
rail station which tends to
be an area where there's just

585
00:32:09,076 --> 00:32:12,635
like not a lot of people and I
remember getting off the train

586
00:32:12,635 --> 00:32:16,269
with my daughter when she was a
baby and and there was someone

587
00:32:16,269 --> 00:32:19,608
who was you know definitely
having a some kind of mental

588
00:32:19,608 --> 00:32:23,240
health crisis and was behaving
aggressively and you know so

589
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,479
there's things like that that
That have made me feel unsafe.

590
00:32:26,479 --> 00:32:27,897
- And if there had
been cameras there,

591
00:32:27,897 --> 00:32:28,837
would you have felt safer?

592
00:32:28,837 --> 00:32:31,519
- No.

593
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:32,479
(audience laughing)

594
00:32:32,479 --> 00:32:35,637
(audience applauding)

595
00:32:39,117 --> 00:32:40,259
- Just taking note of the time.

596
00:32:40,259 --> 00:32:43,377
It's six, why am I
like, it's 6.30.

597
00:32:43,377 --> 00:32:45,857
I had one more question and
then I wanna open it up

598
00:32:50,538 --> 00:32:57,309
The Seattle is going to
host FIFA World Cup.

599
00:32:57,309 --> 00:33:04,459
You are placing 26 cameras
around the stadium district

600
00:33:04,459 --> 00:33:06,459
that you will not turn on.

601
00:33:07,951 --> 00:33:10,951
But they will be ready
in case there's a credible
threat

602
00:33:11,817 --> 00:33:13,826
And last week it was still
unclear

603
00:33:13,858 --> 00:33:16,162
what was the
definition of a credible
threat.

604
00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:18,396
Has -- Gotten any more clarity
as to what that --

605
00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:19,365
>> No.

606
00:33:19,365 --> 00:33:20,624
So and just to get the
numbers right because I said

607
00:33:20,624 --> 00:33:23,001
this incorrectly at
the press conference.

608
00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:25,448
So 26 cameras are the
first -- are the batch of

609
00:33:25,448 --> 00:33:26,968
cameras that are arriving.

610
00:33:26,968 --> 00:33:28,617
I believe it's 20 of those that

611
00:33:28,617 --> 00:33:31,194
are going to be installed
in the Soto district.

612
00:33:31,194 --> 00:33:33,442
And the plan was for
three of the others to

613
00:33:33,442 --> 00:33:35,095
be installed in Capitol Hill.

614
00:33:35,095 --> 00:33:36,681
Three in the city of Seattle.

615
00:33:36,681 --> 00:33:39,365
Central District in Garfield
and then a later batch of

616
00:33:39,365 --> 00:33:41,807
cameras was going to have
add more to Capitol Hill and

617
00:33:41,807 --> 00:33:43,979
Garfield so just just to
get the numbers correct so

618
00:33:43,979 --> 00:33:47,743
it's actually 20 in the in
the kind of stadium district.

619
00:33:47,743 --> 00:33:50,856
Yeah so we are going to
install those and we are

620
00:33:50,856 --> 00:33:54,298
not going to turn them on
and we are working with SPD

621
00:33:54,298 --> 00:33:57,971
to figure out kind of
what that definition of

622
00:33:57,971 --> 00:33:59,759
a credible threat is.

623
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:06,919
Wouldn't it have been better
if the concern was the cameras

624
00:34:06,919 --> 00:34:12,246
are there to guard it on this
international event, the most

625
00:34:12,246 --> 00:34:15,880
watched event, the most attended
event, to just say we're

626
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,755
bringing in the cameras,
returning them on

627
00:34:17,755 --> 00:34:18,797
until World Cup is over?

628
00:34:18,797 --> 00:34:24,059
And then what happens to those
cameras after World Cup?

629
00:34:24,059 --> 00:34:26,398
So, you know, we
anticipate this.

630
00:34:26,398 --> 00:34:29,085
I mean, so yes, that would have
been another direction to go

631
00:34:29,085 --> 00:34:31,579
to just say we're installing
the cameras and we're turning

632
00:34:31,579 --> 00:34:33,420
them on because there's
this big global event.

633
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:35,260
I decided to not turn
them on unless there's

634
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:36,079
a credible threat.

635
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:37,759
That's a decision I made.

636
00:34:37,759 --> 00:34:41,159
I think you can make an argument
that you just turn them on.

637
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:42,338
That's easier, right?

638
00:34:42,338 --> 00:34:44,646
So I, you know, that's
just, I don't know, it's

639
00:34:44,646 --> 00:34:45,739
just a hard decision.

640
00:34:45,739 --> 00:34:48,219
And that's the direction
I decided to go.

641
00:34:48,219 --> 00:34:51,561
So you're not waiting for the
audit to tell you or to give

642
00:34:51,561 --> 00:34:54,978
you a better indication if
those cameras should be used?

643
00:34:54,978 --> 00:34:58,373
So the audit is not going
to be likely completed

644
00:34:58,373 --> 00:34:59,938
before the World Cup.

645
00:34:59,938 --> 00:35:03,777
So that's that's the reason
why we're moving forward with

646
00:35:03,777 --> 00:35:07,777
those cameras kind of before
because we just can't complete

647
00:35:07,777 --> 00:35:09,858
the audit before the World Cup.

648
00:35:09,858 --> 00:35:12,619
So that's the reason
for that decision.

649
00:35:12,619 --> 00:35:16,112
And so the idea is that
the audit will be complete

650
00:35:16,112 --> 00:35:17,858
sometime in the summer.

651
00:35:17,858 --> 00:35:21,364
And then I will be able to make
an assessment and this will

652
00:35:21,364 --> 00:35:23,945
be we will share the results
so like there'll be a

653
00:35:23,945 --> 00:35:25,782
conversation around
that but we'll be able

654
00:35:25,782 --> 00:35:26,699
to make an assessment

655
00:35:27,918 --> 00:35:31,047
of whether to move forward
with installing the cameras in

656
00:35:31,047 --> 00:35:32,679
the other two neighborhoods.

657
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:35,065
And what happens to the
cameras the World Cup

658
00:35:35,065 --> 00:35:36,418
cameras after World Cup.

659
00:35:36,418 --> 00:35:38,668
I mean they will be installed
pending the decision of

660
00:35:38,668 --> 00:35:44,599
whether we're actually moving
forward with the expansion.

661
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:50,146
Let's open it up to questions
from the audience and I think

662
00:35:50,146 --> 00:35:52,920
there's a microphone and a QR

663
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:58,192
iPad. Very little font so I

664
00:35:58,192 --> 00:36:00,199
will have to put on.

665
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:02,378
Hi there.

666
00:36:02,378 --> 00:36:03,358
My name is Gus.

667
00:36:03,358 --> 00:36:05,885
I'll be quick because
I got to go to the

668
00:36:05,885 --> 00:36:07,679
Mariners game after this.

669
00:36:09,378 --> 00:36:14,204
My question for you, Katie,
is the police cited a 300%

670
00:36:14,204 --> 00:36:19,577
arrest increase after more
cameras were installed around

671
00:36:19,577 --> 00:36:22,320
Seattle in the past few years.

672
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:26,911
And they use this as a
justification for why we need

673
00:36:26,911 --> 00:36:28,547
more cameras in the area.

674
00:36:28,547 --> 00:36:31,675
I'm curious how much
weight Do you give these

675
00:36:31,675 --> 00:36:33,297
police statistics?

676
00:36:33,297 --> 00:36:36,320
From the SPD how much weight
do they carry in your

677
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,059
decision-making process?

678
00:36:38,059 --> 00:36:41,458
You're talking about the
300% increase in justice

679
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:47,139
Yeah, that's one example
but just kind of

680
00:36:47,139 --> 00:36:49,139
Statistics from them in general.

681
00:36:49,139 --> 00:36:51,965
I mean this is exactly why I
think we're waiting for the

682
00:36:51,965 --> 00:36:54,918
evaluation that's taking place
now right with which the

683
00:36:54,918 --> 00:36:58,059
Office of the Inspector General
and you pen are conducting.

684
00:36:59,358 --> 00:37:02,679
Because the information that
we're getting from SPD is

685
00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:05,708
useful but I think it really
doesn't tell us enough

686
00:37:05,708 --> 00:37:08,739
right and so like when high
level we're being told.

687
00:37:08,739 --> 00:37:10,471
Here's the number of
incidents that these

688
00:37:10,471 --> 00:37:11,559
cameras have been used in.

689
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:13,409
Here's the number of
investigations these

690
00:37:13,409 --> 00:37:14,539
cameras have been used in.

691
00:37:14,539 --> 00:37:18,818
We have this many homicides,
this many blah blah blah.

692
00:37:18,818 --> 00:37:21,485
That's kind of helpful, but
it actually doesn't tell us

693
00:37:21,485 --> 00:37:22,818
how useful the cameras are.

694
00:37:22,818 --> 00:37:26,152
How many of those incidents
could not have been solved

695
00:37:26,152 --> 00:37:27,858
without the camera, right?

696
00:37:27,858 --> 00:37:29,400
That kind of thing.

697
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,099
So yeah, I mean, I think
it's like the jury's out.

698
00:37:33,099 --> 00:37:35,893
That's why we're that's why I'm
interested in the results of

699
00:37:35,893 --> 00:37:38,251
the evaluation also recognizing
that the results of the

700
00:37:38,251 --> 00:37:39,789
evaluation are probably
not going to tell us

701
00:37:39,789 --> 00:37:42,288
everything we want to
I mean the research

702
00:37:42,288 --> 00:37:43,818
on this is murky.

703
00:37:43,818 --> 00:37:45,159
Thank you so much.

704
00:37:51,338 --> 00:37:52,018
Hello.

705
00:37:53,818 --> 00:37:58,134
So your team and also yourself
have admitted that you don't

706
00:37:58,134 --> 00:38:01,920
know really how secure this
data from the cameras is

707
00:38:03,219 --> 00:38:06,619
and it seemed like
it was so much of a

708
00:38:06,619 --> 00:38:09,219
concerne that you shut
off a camera near a

709
00:38:09,219 --> 00:38:12,646
gender-affirming care facility
So my question is why are

710
00:38:12,646 --> 00:38:15,072
the cameras still on if
we don't know if this

711
00:38:15,072 --> 00:38:18,239
information is secure and
could potentially be harmful

712
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:23,940
Especially when Axion especially
when Axion just ended their

713
00:38:23,940 --> 00:38:26,900
partnership with Flock in 2024.

714
00:38:29,378 --> 00:38:35,878
So yeah I mean I think what
I would say to this is that.

715
00:38:35,878 --> 00:38:39,983
You know shut that camera
off out of an abundance of

716
00:38:39,983 --> 00:38:44,184
caution and you know if you
look at the way that ICE is

717
00:38:44,184 --> 00:38:48,679
using surveillance they have
their own ALPR automatic

718
00:38:48,679 --> 00:38:51,219
license plate reader cameras.

719
00:38:51,219 --> 00:38:53,835
They are using those
to pick people up.

720
00:38:53,835 --> 00:38:56,126
It's not actually
they don't they

721
00:38:56,126 --> 00:38:57,599
kind of don't need us.

722
00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:02,494
Okay and I'm not aware of any
instances of ICE actually using

723
00:39:02,494 --> 00:39:05,039
CCTV camera footage anywhere.

724
00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:08,474
So this is beyond this is
beyond ice just the data

725
00:39:08,474 --> 00:39:10,277
not being secure itself.

726
00:39:10,277 --> 00:39:13,373
I think it's reason I mean
it's I mean I think it's

727
00:39:13,373 --> 00:39:16,311
I don't think we have
like concerns about like

728
00:39:16,311 --> 00:39:17,858
overall data security.

729
00:39:17,858 --> 00:39:23,219
It's more about like could
the federal government get.

730
00:39:23,219 --> 00:39:25,599
Like I mean no no more.

731
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:27,858
Hold on hold on.

732
00:39:27,858 --> 00:39:28,306
Hold on.

733
00:39:28,306 --> 00:39:30,795
I just mean I don't like
this day is not like less

734
00:39:30,795 --> 00:39:32,199
secure than any other day.

735
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:35,335
I guess what kind of data
security concerns you're

736
00:39:35,335 --> 00:39:38,695
talking about because I think
what we're looking at is

737
00:39:38,695 --> 00:39:42,577
>> like security breaches hacker
like hackers things like that.

738
00:39:42,579 --> 00:39:44,920
>> Yeah I mean there's data
everywhere.

739
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,018
We're being surveilled all
the time by our phones.

740
00:39:50,938 --> 00:39:55,500
I'm just saying like like
like you know that's.

741
00:40:04,139 --> 00:40:07,818
Hi Howard Gale from the
36 district Democrats.

742
00:40:07,818 --> 00:40:11,143
So as you just said we don't
the top concern should not

743
00:40:11,143 --> 00:40:14,697
be CCTV in terms of threats
to immigrant populations and

744
00:40:14,697 --> 00:40:18,853
literally hundreds of thousands
of people living in Seattle from

745
00:40:18,853 --> 00:40:20,818
Fourth Amendment violations.

746
00:40:20,818 --> 00:40:24,833
Given that my question is
why are we not as mayor you

747
00:40:24,833 --> 00:40:28,751
have executive authority
over policing over the

748
00:40:28,751 --> 00:40:31,139
police over the police chief.

749
00:40:31,139 --> 00:40:33,393
Why are you not doing two
things that you could

750
00:40:33,393 --> 00:40:34,579
literally do tomorrow.

751
00:40:34,579 --> 00:40:37,139
And these are things that
36 district Democrats

752
00:40:37,139 --> 00:40:38,099
have asked of you.

753
00:40:38,099 --> 00:40:41,786
One is to actually task
police to protect people's

754
00:40:41,786 --> 00:40:43,719
Fourth Amendment rights.

755
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,039
This has been done by Mayor
Michelle Wu in Boston.

756
00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:48,378
It's something that
you could do tomorrow.

757
00:40:48,378 --> 00:40:49,518
That's number one.

758
00:40:49,518 --> 00:40:52,931
Number two, as evidence that
we really can't trust the

759
00:40:52,931 --> 00:40:56,338
police is what's been
happening with our care team.

760
00:40:56,338 --> 00:41:00,829
That they're underutilized
by over 76 percent, 72

761
00:41:00,829 --> 00:41:02,860
percent is the figure.

762
00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:06,643
Tomorrow you could write an
executive order that says SBD

763
00:41:06,643 --> 00:41:09,418
has to stop interfering
with These are two very...

764
00:41:10,858 --> 00:41:12,460
I think that was 60 seconds.

765
00:41:12,460 --> 00:41:13,978
I think that was 60 seconds.

766
00:41:13,978 --> 00:41:17,918
Two extremely important
public safety issues.

767
00:41:17,918 --> 00:41:20,414
So the question is, will
you actually direct

768
00:41:20,414 --> 00:41:23,179
the SPD to stop it from
happening to the care team?

769
00:41:23,179 --> 00:41:26,161
And two, will you direct
SPD to actually start

770
00:41:26,161 --> 00:41:29,297
protecting people's
Fourth Amendment rights?

771
00:41:29,297 --> 00:41:33,034
So the issues with the care team
and the scope of its ability

772
00:41:33,034 --> 00:41:37,000
to respond I don't think can be
solved with an executive order.

773
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,460
Happy to have you send me
some draft language that my

774
00:41:40,460 --> 00:41:43,681
team can review and also
happy to have you send me

775
00:41:43,681 --> 00:41:47,467
what Boston is doing around
Fourth Amendment because we

776
00:41:47,467 --> 00:41:49,400
want to do everything we can.

777
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:56,469
So if there's something
we can do that we

778
00:41:56,469 --> 00:42:00,539
can't then let's do it.

779
00:42:08,918 --> 00:42:10,699
No I'm not scared of
the SPD and SPOG.

780
00:42:14,739 --> 00:42:16,132
Thank you Howard.

781
00:42:16,132 --> 00:42:19,382
Hello. As someone who
works in social work

782
00:42:19,382 --> 00:42:23,838
and has for about six years I
will say the care team doesn't

783
00:42:23,838 --> 00:42:28,016
have enough resources and I
work in housing for people

784
00:42:28,016 --> 00:42:32,474
who are true blood clients and
we don't have nearly enough

785
00:42:32,474 --> 00:42:37,023
housing. My understanding is
that it will cost about three

786
00:42:37,023 --> 00:42:41,759
point one million dollars and
two hundred and fifty thousand

787
00:42:41,759 --> 00:42:44,079
dollars a year for the camera.

788
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,648
>> I think we have
a lot of options.

789
00:42:46,648 --> 00:42:49,398
We have a lot of
options for cameras.

790
00:42:49,398 --> 00:42:51,414
That's my understanding.

791
00:42:51,414 --> 00:42:54,440
So I think right now
we have two options.

792
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,291
Do we want to use camera
systems that will allow for

793
00:42:58,291 --> 00:43:02,876
mass surveillance during a time
where immigrants are being

794
00:43:02,876 --> 00:43:06,085
rounded up and kidnapped
off the streets?

795
00:43:06,085 --> 00:43:09,661
And they're probably --
if ICE or any of them get

796
00:43:09,661 --> 00:43:14,061
this camera footage, they will
use AI photo recognition.

797
00:43:14,061 --> 00:43:19,628
So using AI facial recognition
systems, studies show, according

798
00:43:19,628 --> 00:43:24,688
to MIT, that they cannot always
tell the difference between

799
00:43:24,688 --> 00:43:32,746
two people with similar dark
skin tones, which sounds like

800
00:43:32,846 --> 00:43:37,317
it is really good at locking
up, locking people up, even

801
00:43:37,317 --> 00:43:41,353
if it's not the right people,
especially when we're talking

802
00:43:41,353 --> 00:43:43,190
about Garfield or Rainier
Beach.

803
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:44,579
that kind of area.

804
00:43:46,659 --> 00:43:56,998
OK. So there are there are.

805
00:43:56,998 --> 00:44:03,619
Mike 60 seconds like program
after school programs.

806
00:44:03,699 --> 00:44:08,675
Folks, one of the reasons
we're trying to cut mics is

807
00:44:08,675 --> 00:44:11,559
if you look behind you the
queue's quite long, so we're

808
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:14,380
just trying to get as many
perspectives as possible.

809
00:44:14,380 --> 00:44:17,603
Totally. I'm going to hand
back the mayor to the

810
00:44:17,603 --> 00:44:19,340
mayor and she's going to.

811
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:24,260
Okay that felt like more of
a comment than a question.

812
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:24,777
So yeah.

813
00:44:24,777 --> 00:44:28,074
But. Other social programs that

814
00:44:28,074 --> 00:44:31,277
actually have proven to
prevent crime rather than.

815
00:44:31,277 --> 00:44:35,242
Yeah and like I said like many
many things we need to do on

816
00:44:35,242 --> 00:44:39,978
public safety including lots of
upstream and preventative work.

817
00:44:39,978 --> 00:44:43,387
Okay my name is Inez I'm with
the International Migrants

818
00:44:43,387 --> 00:44:45,199
Alliance so I have two things.

819
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:48,534
First of all I think it's
really upsetting that you keep

820
00:44:48,534 --> 00:44:51,869
bringing up Rainier Beach
because now another youth is

821
00:44:51,869 --> 00:44:55,206
actually in detention or in
the system which is not that

822
00:44:55,206 --> 00:44:58,902
doesn't feel like a solved crime
to me so that's just one step.

823
00:44:58,902 --> 00:45:02,384
Axon the contractor for the
CCTV cameras you say that they

824
00:45:02,384 --> 00:45:06,010
don't they've never used ISIS
never used it to actually make

825
00:45:06,010 --> 00:45:09,563
arrests or detainment we are
in unprecedented times we're

826
00:45:09,563 --> 00:45:12,759
We're deporting people
to third countries.

827
00:45:12,759 --> 00:45:16,478
So 2025 was the deadliest year
for migrants in detention.

828
00:45:16,478 --> 00:45:19,688
What will you do if
someone based off of the

829
00:45:19,688 --> 00:45:23,358
surveillance from the
CCTV cameras is detained

830
00:45:23,358 --> 00:45:23,898
and dies?

831
00:45:23,898 --> 00:45:25,259
How will you respond?

832
00:45:25,259 --> 00:45:28,277
Because people are
dying in detention.

833
00:45:28,277 --> 00:45:31,978
ICE is killing people.

834
00:45:31,978 --> 00:45:43,925
So as I said, so SPD does not
share data from the cameras

835
00:45:43,925 --> 00:45:49,500
with any other agencies.

836
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:55,998
Axon works with CBP and they've
made 147 million since 2008.

837
00:45:55,998 --> 00:45:59,998
So again, Axon does
all kinds of things.

838
00:45:59,998 --> 00:46:02,338
All these companies do
all kinds of things.

839
00:46:02,338 --> 00:46:05,759
I'm not trying to defend
Axon as a good company.

840
00:46:06,838 --> 00:46:11,527
But what I'm saying is that
the data from Seattle CCTV

841
00:46:11,527 --> 00:46:15,628
cameras is not to our
knowledge Being shared with

842
00:46:15,628 --> 00:46:16,958
any other agency.

843
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:21,219
No they can't just take it.

844
00:46:21,219 --> 00:46:32,777
They can't just take it.

845
00:46:32,777 --> 00:46:33,704
I understand.

846
00:46:33,704 --> 00:46:34,398
Yes I know.

847
00:46:41,498 --> 00:46:43,018
I understand the mistrust.

848
00:46:46,938 --> 00:46:49,277
Good evening Mayor Wilson.

849
00:46:49,277 --> 00:46:50,358
It's nice to see you.

850
00:46:50,358 --> 00:46:53,438
I had the honor of serving as
a co-lead for your transition

851
00:46:53,438 --> 00:46:56,150
team representing youth
and students and also my

852
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:59,458
organization the Washington
bus endorsed you for mayor.

853
00:46:59,458 --> 00:47:02,085
And I come up here today
because I know that my

854
00:47:02,085 --> 00:47:05,139
team of young people put
together a recommendation

855
00:47:05,139 --> 00:47:08,679
in the perspective of youth
civil rights that these cameras

856
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:12,498
do not make young
people feel safe.

857
00:47:12,498 --> 00:47:16,487
I wanted to ask you, especially
knowing that you are planning

858
00:47:16,487 --> 00:47:20,163
on having expansions in places
where young Seattleites

859
00:47:20,163 --> 00:47:23,760
congregate young people feel
like these cameras, they

860
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,202
criminalize our presence
and make us feel like we're

861
00:47:27,202 --> 00:47:30,800
punished for being and having
public lives in Seattle.

862
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,472
So I want to ask you what if
you will not remove these

863
00:47:33,472 --> 00:47:35,954
cameras if you will not
turn them off if you will

864
00:47:35,954 --> 00:47:37,418
not stop these expansions.

865
00:47:37,418 --> 00:47:40,994
What will you do to preserve
the civil rights and public

866
00:47:40,994 --> 00:47:44,414
life and safety of young
people and what education or

867
00:47:44,414 --> 00:47:48,297
initiatives or work will your
office do to make this happen.

868
00:47:48,297 --> 00:47:49,599
One minute.

869
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:56,376
Yeah I mean I in my office are
very committed to continuing to

870
00:47:56,376 --> 00:47:59,744
engage with you and the other
members of the transition team

871
00:47:59,744 --> 00:48:02,539
and young people across the city
to address those very questions

872
00:48:02,539 --> 00:48:06,289
and just want to acknowledge
that like yes understand that

873
00:48:06,289 --> 00:48:09,210
the work that you all did
came forward with a strong

874
00:48:09,210 --> 00:48:12,179
recommendation from the young
people that you talk to to

875
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:24,018
So I'm just going to
jump in really quickly.

876
00:48:24,018 --> 00:48:26,244
Okay. Feel welcome in it and

877
00:48:26,244 --> 00:48:29,898
safe in it and we'll keep
working on that together.

878
00:48:29,898 --> 00:48:32,697
I'm getting questions from the
live stream or the QR so I'm

879
00:48:32,697 --> 00:48:35,398
just going to jump
in really quickly.

880
00:48:35,398 --> 00:48:37,771
Appreciate that you're
acknowledging the need to

881
00:48:37,771 --> 00:48:39,918
weigh rights violations
and privacy against

882
00:48:39,918 --> 00:48:43,599
actual data and the budget
juggle of officer staffing.

883
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:46,938
The part of the cost of these
cameras is human, right?

884
00:48:46,938 --> 00:48:50,829
There is a real human impact of
surveillance that is difficult

885
00:48:50,829 --> 00:48:52,699
to measure in budget dollars.

886
00:48:52,699 --> 00:48:57,315
So how is Seattle attempting
to measure the human

887
00:48:57,315 --> 00:48:59,679
impact of surveillance.

888
00:48:59,679 --> 00:49:04,458
I want to ask the question or
question back but I can't.

889
00:49:06,259 --> 00:49:09,496
Perhaps they're talking about
just kind of the the sense

890
00:49:09,496 --> 00:49:11,219
of being surveilled in public

891
00:49:35,297 --> 00:49:39,061
I don't want to just live
in a society where we

892
00:49:39,061 --> 00:49:41,297
have cameras everywhere.

893
00:49:41,297 --> 00:49:43,619
And yeah I don't know I
mean that's just like a

894
00:49:43,619 --> 00:49:44,998
part of the conversation.

895
00:49:44,998 --> 00:49:48,702
Again one of these things that
makes it really hard to weigh

896
00:49:48,702 --> 00:49:52,179
is that there are these kind
of just yeah I would love to.

897
00:49:52,179 --> 00:49:56,117
I mean I think the solution
is we need to have a holistic

898
00:49:56,117 --> 00:50:00,467
public safety strategy that
makes our city and our

899
00:50:00,467 --> 00:50:05,338
neighborhood safer and
then not have cameras.

900
00:50:05,338 --> 00:50:09,739
I mean again like I think from
what I've seen my personal

901
00:50:09,739 --> 00:50:13,125
view at this point is that
it makes sense in certain

902
00:50:13,125 --> 00:50:15,434
like high crime situations
to have cameras I

903
00:50:15,434 --> 00:50:16,619
don't want to just like

904
00:50:23,018 --> 00:50:24,143
>> Hi, my name is M.

905
00:50:24,143 --> 00:50:26,541
Smith. I'm a member
of labor militant.

906
00:50:26,541 --> 00:50:30,210
Mayor Wilson, first of all, I
just saw a peaceful protester

907
00:50:30,210 --> 00:50:31,936
get removed from the venue.

908
00:50:31,936 --> 00:50:35,382
And so I want to ask, do you
support peaceful protesters

909
00:50:35,382 --> 00:50:36,731
being asked to leave?

910
00:50:36,731 --> 00:50:38,978
I think we should
allow them back in.

911
00:50:38,978 --> 00:50:41,152
But you've said
that you've broken

912
00:50:41,152 --> 00:50:44,898
this -- you said that you've
broken this campaign promise on

913
00:50:44,898 --> 00:50:48,119
shutting down the surveillance
City Hall City Council

914
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:51,335
surveillance cameras because
you're concerned about crime

915
00:50:51,335 --> 00:50:54,045
and if you are concerned
about crime, why are you not

916
00:50:54,045 --> 00:50:56,820
fighting to tax the rich
for community services that

917
00:50:56,820 --> 00:50:58,458
could actually prevent crime?

918
00:50:58,458 --> 00:51:01,114
Like free childcare a major
expansion of affordable

919
00:51:01,114 --> 00:51:03,954
affordable public housing and
why did you recently tell

920
00:51:03,954 --> 00:51:06,974
business executives that you
would be making cuts to public

921
00:51:06,974 --> 00:51:09,630
services and to everyone in
this room it's clear that

922
00:51:09,630 --> 00:51:12,590
Mayor Wilson and the Democrats
are not going to do anything

923
00:51:12,590 --> 00:51:13,797
unless we force them to.

924
00:51:13,797 --> 00:51:17,000
I urge everyone to come out to
City Hall this Tuesday at 2

925
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,739
p.m. to make our voices heard.

926
00:51:18,739 --> 00:51:20,679
This long line of people
is not going to get heard.

927
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:23,318
We have to make our
voices heard this Tuesday

928
00:51:23,318 --> 00:51:23,818
at 2 p.m.

929
00:51:23,818 --> 00:51:24,460
Thank you.

930
00:51:26,018 --> 00:51:27,898
Okay, so I want to
respond to that.

931
00:51:27,898 --> 00:51:30,936
So, first of all, I don't
feel that I'm breaking

932
00:51:30,936 --> 00:51:32,259
a campaign promise.

933
00:51:32,259 --> 00:51:34,159
I would like everyone to listen.

934
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:35,777
Listen. Excuse me.

935
00:51:35,777 --> 00:51:38,739
Wait. Okay.

936
00:51:38,739 --> 00:51:41,873
What I said repeatedly last
year during the campaign was

937
00:51:41,873 --> 00:51:44,809
that I did not support the
city council's decision to

938
00:51:44,809 --> 00:51:48,077
expand surveillance given the
concerns that I was hearing

939
00:51:48,077 --> 00:51:51,344
from immigrants rights groups
and civil liberties groups

940
00:51:51,344 --> 00:51:54,146
about the danger that that
data could fall into the

941
00:51:54,146 --> 00:51:55,880
hands of federal authorities.

942
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,259
But you're expanding it.

943
00:51:58,259 --> 00:52:00,159
And that is why we
are doing an audit.

944
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:03,275
So I'm doing the due diligence
to try to understand

945
00:52:03,275 --> 00:52:06,539
whether these data security
concerns are warranted

946
00:52:06,539 --> 00:52:09,322
and take some steps to make
sure that the data is as

947
00:52:09,322 --> 00:52:10,679
secure as we can have it.

948
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,581
So I'm doing a pause, which
I think is in line with what

949
00:52:13,581 --> 00:52:15,099
I said during the campaign.

950
00:52:15,099 --> 00:52:17,777
I never said I'm going to
turn all the cameras off.

951
00:52:17,777 --> 00:52:19,518
I never said all the cameras
should be turned off.

952
00:52:19,518 --> 00:52:22,608
So I encourage people to look
carefully at what I actually

953
00:52:22,608 --> 00:52:25,250
said last year during the
campaign because my actual

954
00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:28,277
feelings about the situation and
values have not fundamentally

955
00:52:29,358 --> 00:52:32,918
I have learned more and that
has informed what I'm doing.

956
00:52:32,918 --> 00:52:36,699
But I feel pretty much like
I did last year about this.

957
00:52:36,699 --> 00:52:38,942
In terms of what I said at the
business event, I think we

958
00:52:38,942 --> 00:52:40,559
are going to have to make
some cuts this year.

959
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:42,378
We have a very large
budget deficit.

960
00:52:42,378 --> 00:52:44,449
We are working on ways to
close that deficit and I don't

961
00:52:44,449 --> 00:52:46,418
think we're going to be
able to close it entirely.

962
00:52:46,418 --> 00:52:47,079
And I do think...

963
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:48,639
And cut SPD.

964
00:52:48,639 --> 00:52:55,099
Huh? Well, that is on the table.

965
00:52:55,099 --> 00:52:58,134
So we have asked all, so in
general, in the past when

966
00:52:58,134 --> 00:53:01,793
mayors have asked departments to
do exercises of modeling cuts,

967
00:53:01,793 --> 00:53:04,938
they have often not included
the public safety departments

968
00:53:04,938 --> 00:53:05,398
in that.

969
00:53:05,398 --> 00:53:07,418
We have included the public
safety departments in that.

970
00:53:07,418 --> 00:53:10,713
So we are asking all the
departments to model

971
00:53:10,713 --> 00:53:13,739
what a 5% cut and a 10%
cut would look like.

972
00:53:13,739 --> 00:53:20,126
And my team is very hard at work
looking for progressive revenue

973
00:53:20,126 --> 00:53:22,777
options, taxing the rich,
taxing big business

974
00:53:23,717 --> 00:53:26,717
in a way that we think will
both be politcally viable

975
00:53:26,733 --> 00:53:29,452
and practible.

976
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:35,081
>> Hi, Mayor Wilson.

977
00:53:35,081 --> 00:53:37,603
I've been reading AXION's
brochures

978
00:53:37,603 --> 00:53:39,635
on the
evidence.com platform

979
00:53:39,635 --> 00:53:42,947
and it includes AI evidence
tagging, aka object

980
00:53:42,947 --> 00:53:47,030
recognition capabilities, which
Necessitate that they must

981
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:50,039
possess an unencrypted
copy of the footage.

982
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:53,070
Courts have held the private
entities can sell data

983
00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:55,958
to the feds without it
being legally considered a

984
00:53:55,958 --> 00:53:59,130
search and obviously that
is concerning if Axon could

985
00:53:59,130 --> 00:54:00,539
theoretically do that.

986
00:54:00,539 --> 00:54:03,398
Would you commit to issuing
a request for information on

987
00:54:03,398 --> 00:54:06,335
vendors that could replace
the evidence dot com

988
00:54:06,335 --> 00:54:09,951
platform for all of SPD's
data on all crimes with

989
00:54:09,951 --> 00:54:14,679
one exclusively hosted
on Seattle's servers for

990
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:17,878
data sovereignty reasons.

991
00:54:17,878 --> 00:54:21,659
I think that's something that
my team has been looking into.

992
00:54:21,659 --> 00:54:24,295
It might be very very
expensive to host that

993
00:54:24,295 --> 00:54:25,760
data on our own servers.

994
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,061
So I think that's kind of a
consideration but that is

995
00:54:28,061 --> 00:54:31,523
something that I think we were
I will also say that Seattle

996
00:54:31,523 --> 00:54:35,768
does not use any facial
recognition or AI stuff with our

997
00:54:35,768 --> 00:54:40,664
surveillance and I believe that
to move in that direction would

998
00:54:40,664 --> 00:54:44,818
require like an affirmative
vote of the city council.

999
00:54:44,818 --> 00:54:47,572
We do our surveillance
ordinance which you know

1000
00:54:47,572 --> 00:54:48,878
probably be stronger.

1001
00:54:48,878 --> 00:54:51,175
It does require new
technologies to actually go

1002
00:54:51,175 --> 00:54:52,438
through a public process.

1003
00:54:52,438 --> 00:54:55,518
So there is that.

1004
00:54:57,898 --> 00:55:00,972
So just to clarify in Renton
which operates 24-floor cameras

1005
00:55:00,972 --> 00:55:03,672
the police chief John Schultz
has said that ICE agents

1006
00:55:03,672 --> 00:55:06,063
have access that data is
being granted official

1007
00:55:06,063 --> 00:55:07,438
access through side
door measures.

1008
00:55:07,438 --> 00:55:09,913
Let's not pretend that like
official access counts as far

1009
00:55:09,913 --> 00:55:11,099
as what ICE is willing or not

1010
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:18,358
Mayor Wilson said repeatedly
that you are against ICE.

1011
00:55:18,358 --> 00:55:21,737
The current congressman for
Washington District 9 which

1012
00:55:21,737 --> 00:55:25,188
includes South and Central
Seattle Adam Smith has created

1013
00:55:25,188 --> 00:55:27,583
ICE. He's willing to
fund it repeatedly.

1014
00:55:27,583 --> 00:55:30,188
He's one of Palantir's
top five politicians

1015
00:55:30,188 --> 00:55:33,427
in terms of donations who
are massive ICE contractors.

1016
00:55:33,427 --> 00:55:35,963
You refuse to back his
anti ICE approbance.

1017
00:55:35,963 --> 00:55:37,934
Why are you refusing
to support an

1018
00:55:37,934 --> 00:55:41,315
independent socialist against
this you know like guy who

1019
00:55:41,318 --> 00:55:44,981
created ice and do you actually
support public calling to throw

1020
00:55:44,981 --> 00:55:47,934
out all price Democrats like
out of Smith from office and

1021
00:55:47,934 --> 00:55:50,637
as you try to weasel out of
this commitment it's clear that

1022
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:53,391
we should all go to City Hall on
Tuesday the pressure movement

1023
00:55:53,391 --> 00:55:56,260
is the only thing responsible
for this so-called pause and

1024
00:55:56,260 --> 00:55:59,239
we need an ongoing to ask at
the pressure of the movement.

1025
00:56:03,179 --> 00:56:06,385
So I'm not aware that
Sean was actually asked

1026
00:56:06,385 --> 00:56:07,858
for my endorsement.

1027
00:56:07,858 --> 00:56:09,297
You said during the
campaign that you were

1028
00:56:09,297 --> 00:56:09,998
free to endorse her.

1029
00:56:09,998 --> 00:56:11,418
You were asked why a panel.

1030
00:56:11,418 --> 00:56:11,878
Actually you're right.

1031
00:56:11,878 --> 00:56:12,559
You're right.

1032
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:13,918
Yes I am.

1033
00:56:13,918 --> 00:56:16,914
So I think what you
said brings up this is

1034
00:56:16,914 --> 00:56:18,639
actually a good point.

1035
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,454
So just so that people
understand my understanding

1036
00:56:22,454 --> 00:56:25,739
at least of the issue
with the Flock cameras.

1037
00:56:25,739 --> 00:56:28,853
And I'm not trying to argue
here that Flock is bad, Accent

1038
00:56:28,853 --> 00:56:30,378
is good, so just to be clear.

1039
00:56:30,378 --> 00:56:33,675
But just so that people know,
my understanding of the issue

1040
00:56:33,675 --> 00:56:37,480
with the Flock cameras is that
the data security issue is with

1041
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,559
Flock's ALPRs, their automatic
license plate readers, and

1042
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:43,885
that there was a kind of
a default or automatic

1043
00:56:43,885 --> 00:56:46,518
setting on those cameras
that would automatically

1044
00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:49,786
And so that is what the specific
thing that has been in the

1045
00:56:49,786 --> 00:56:52,061
news around the Flock cameras
and I just to be clear acts on

1046
00:56:52,061 --> 00:56:54,525
there's not even that capability
so there's not like a setting

1047
00:56:54,525 --> 00:56:56,612
which could automatically
share data with other law

1048
00:56:56,612 --> 00:56:59,219
enforcement agencies including
the federal government and that

1049
00:56:59,219 --> 00:57:01,777
many jurisdictions including in
Washington State even without

1050
00:57:01,777 --> 00:57:03,958
knowing it had that setting
on so that they were sharing

1051
00:57:03,958 --> 00:57:06,280
data you know even against the
keep Washington working act

1052
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,697
potentially right and so that
is what the specific thing that

1053
00:57:08,697 --> 00:57:10,925
has been in the news around the
Flock cameras and I just to

1054
00:57:10,925 --> 00:57:13,295
be clear acts on there's not
even that capability so there's

1055
00:57:13,295 --> 00:57:15,713
not like a setting which could
automatically share data with

1056
00:57:15,713 --> 00:57:17,039
other law enforcement agencies.

1057
00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:20,577
So other law enforcement
agencies would have to actually

1058
00:57:20,577 --> 00:57:24,266
request data from SPD so
there would be that awareness

1059
00:57:24,266 --> 00:57:27,777
and that ability to say
no which is the policy.

1060
00:57:27,777 --> 00:57:31,039
So just sharing that
information about FLOC.

1061
00:57:31,039 --> 00:57:33,518
What about Adam Smith?

1062
00:57:33,518 --> 00:57:34,797
What about him?

1063
00:57:34,797 --> 00:57:38,438
Do you think we should
throw out for us Democrats?

1064
00:57:38,438 --> 00:57:40,719
Hi my name is Jake I'm
here representing.

1065
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:44,259
I have not endorsed Adam Smith.

1066
00:57:44,259 --> 00:57:47,606
My question is, so you mentioned
there's an audit that might

1067
00:57:47,606 --> 00:57:51,036
be done by the end of
the It's a little bit

1068
00:57:51,036 --> 00:57:53,039
nebulous to me.

1069
00:57:53,039 --> 00:57:56,641
Do you have any plans as the
audit is conducted to release

1070
00:57:56,641 --> 00:58:00,838
like a schedule of when it
will be done or any updates

1071
00:58:00,838 --> 00:58:02,739
as you learn them?

1072
00:58:02,739 --> 00:58:03,559
Yeah, that's a good question.

1073
00:58:03,559 --> 00:58:06,945
I mean I think my understanding
at this point is that the

1074
00:58:06,945 --> 00:58:10,469
audit will take a few months and
yeah happy to I don't see any

1075
00:58:10,469 --> 00:58:13,759
reason why we wouldn't share
a more specific timeline as

1076
00:58:13,759 --> 00:58:14,699
soon as we have that.

1077
00:58:14,699 --> 00:58:17,594
I think we're in conversation
with NYU policing project now

1078
00:58:17,594 --> 00:58:20,599
about the timeline and
the scope and all that.

1079
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:22,273
Release on Instagram
please that's where I

1080
00:58:22,273 --> 00:58:23,018
get most of my news.

1081
00:58:23,018 --> 00:58:24,818
Thank you.

1082
00:58:24,818 --> 00:58:27,418
You're one of those.

1083
00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:30,179
Hello Mayor.

1084
00:58:30,179 --> 00:58:33,342
Given that Idaho just
passed today a law that

1085
00:58:33,342 --> 00:58:36,766
would put trans people in
prison for life for using the

1086
00:58:36,766 --> 00:58:40,358
bathroom that aligns with their
identity on the fourth offense

1087
00:58:40,358 --> 00:58:44,132
that is up to life in prison
for using the bathroom.

1088
00:58:44,132 --> 00:58:46,556
And we will have
thousands if not

1089
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:49,679
tens of thousands of transgender
refugees coming to our state

1090
00:58:49,679 --> 00:58:51,119
from Idaho Kansas Louisiana

1091
00:58:52,277 --> 00:58:55,867
And given that Axon stores data
on Microsoft servers which

1092
00:58:55,867 --> 00:58:58,864
Edward Snowden leaked in 2014
all feed directly to the

1093
00:58:58,864 --> 00:59:01,077
NSA since at least the
Obama administration.

1094
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:02,878
That's why he's in
exile in Russia.

1095
00:59:02,878 --> 00:59:05,318
All Google and Microsoft
customer data goes

1096
00:59:05,318 --> 00:59:06,438
straight to the NSA.

1097
00:59:06,438 --> 00:59:07,338
The NSA didn't ask.

1098
00:59:07,338 --> 00:59:08,438
They said we're doing this.

1099
00:59:08,438 --> 00:59:09,358
Microsoft could not say no.

1100
00:59:09,358 --> 00:59:11,759
You can't say no to the NSA.

1101
00:59:11,759 --> 00:59:13,818
So it doesn't matter what
state that data is stored in.

1102
00:59:13,818 --> 00:59:15,358
It goes straight to the
federal government.

1103
00:59:15,358 --> 00:59:18,514
What are you going to do to
protect trans people to create

1104
00:59:18,514 --> 00:59:20,260
space for trans refugees and to

1105
00:59:21,418 --> 00:59:24,217
to not give data to the federal
government which is having

1106
00:59:24,217 --> 00:59:26,659
the data at all because
they will take it.

1107
00:59:31,277 --> 00:59:34,405
Happy to have you share all that
with my team if we if we think

1108
00:59:34,405 --> 00:59:37,608
that the federal government
is going to have access

1109
00:59:37,608 --> 00:59:39,277
to data in that manner.

1110
00:59:39,277 --> 00:59:40,978
That's a problem.

1111
00:59:40,978 --> 00:59:44,858
Thank you.

1112
00:59:44,858 --> 00:59:45,577
My name is Summer.

1113
00:59:45,579 --> 00:59:47,418
I'm a member of Labor Militant.

1114
00:59:47,418 --> 00:59:51,259
Mayor Wilson, you ran promising
to hold SPD accountable.

1115
00:59:51,259 --> 00:59:53,478
The Seattle Police Union
president announced

1116
00:59:53,478 --> 00:59:55,699
that they will not be
following your executive

1117
00:59:55,699 --> 00:59:57,485
order. What's your plan to

1118
00:59:57,485 --> 00:59:59,018
make SPD follow the law?

1119
00:59:59,018 --> 01:00:07,018
And do you support firing cops
who are cooperating with ICE?

1120
01:00:07,018 --> 01:00:10,719
Yeah, I mean, SPOG is not
the boss of the police.

1121
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:17,161
And we're working with SPD to
make sure that they follow the

1122
01:00:17,161 --> 01:00:19,880
executive order that I issued.

1123
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:25,099
How can you tell us how are you
how are you enforcing that?

1124
01:00:25,099 --> 01:00:28,105
I'm not sure what kind of
answer you're looking for.

1125
01:00:28,105 --> 01:00:30,971
We're working with the
police department to make

1126
01:00:30,971 --> 01:00:34,001
sure that officers are
Following the rules that we

1127
01:00:34,001 --> 01:00:37,259
have sent down and if they
don't then that's a problem

1128
01:00:37,259 --> 01:00:39,889
Do you support firing
cops who don't follow

1129
01:00:39,889 --> 01:00:41,277
that executive order?

1130
01:00:41,277 --> 01:00:45,958
You mean firing cops who do what
who who don't follow the law?

1131
01:00:45,958 --> 01:00:46,797
Yeah

1132
01:00:51,139 --> 01:00:53,010
Hi, my name is Jason Thiel.

1133
01:00:53,010 --> 01:00:54,969
I just wanted to say that you

1134
01:00:54,969 --> 01:00:59,139
did break a campaign promise
because you are going through

1135
01:00:59,139 --> 01:01:02,884
with the expansion, like
even if the audits not going

1136
01:01:02,884 --> 01:01:06,458
to be done until afterwards
you said that earlier.

1137
01:01:06,458 --> 01:01:10,570
And also, you know, you talked
about the cutting the budget

1138
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:15,193
earlier and including the police
and public safety stuff in your

1139
01:01:15,193 --> 01:01:17,378
audit of deciding what to cut.

1140
01:01:17,378 --> 01:01:19,695
But that's not the same
thing as committing to not

1141
01:01:19,695 --> 01:01:20,938
cutting public services.

1142
01:01:20,938 --> 01:01:23,204
And it's also not the
same thing as committing

1143
01:01:23,204 --> 01:01:24,277
to cut the SPD budget.

1144
01:01:24,277 --> 01:01:27,146
Will you pledge not to cut
public services, cut the SPD

1145
01:01:27,146 --> 01:01:29,936
budget and tax the rich to
fund The things I was talking

1146
01:01:29,936 --> 01:01:32,811
about to fund free childcare
affordable housing and city

1147
01:01:32,811 --> 01:01:35,505
run grocery stores the shit
that you ran on in this city

1148
01:01:35,505 --> 01:01:38,318
the things that working people
actually need right now.

1149
01:01:39,358 --> 01:01:41,547
Yeah I mean to be clear I
don't want to cut public

1150
01:01:41,547 --> 01:01:44,233
services that are useful to
people so we have a very

1151
01:01:44,233 --> 01:01:47,239
large budget deficit as I
said we're working very

1152
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:50,284
hard to identify revenues
so that we don't have to

1153
01:01:50,284 --> 01:01:51,768
make significant cuts.

1154
01:01:51,768 --> 01:01:53,746
At the same time I do think

1155
01:01:53,746 --> 01:01:57,978
that you know I think it's
important to be able to take

1156
01:01:57,978 --> 01:02:01,902
Look at all the ways that
the city spending money

1157
01:02:01,902 --> 01:02:05,824
and I said this during the
campaign to be willing

1158
01:02:05,824 --> 01:02:10,237
to assess whether programs
are actually fulfilling.

1159
01:02:10,239 --> 01:02:13,119
What they were put in
place to achieve in a cost

1160
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:16,380
effective manner and I think
we need to be willing to

1161
01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:19,639
end things that aren't doing
what we want them to do.

1162
01:02:19,639 --> 01:02:22,079
So I'm not pledging
to cut nothing.

1163
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:25,271
But I but I think you know,
it's often said budgets are a

1164
01:02:25,271 --> 01:02:28,679
moral document and I think that
there's going to be a lot of

1165
01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:31,561
prioritization going on in
my administration of making

1166
01:02:31,561 --> 01:02:34,076
you said we're trying to
use our budget in the most

1167
01:02:34,076 --> 01:02:36,958
effective way to achieve
results for Seattle residents

1168
01:02:36,958 --> 01:02:39,606
including all the things that I
campaigned on from

1169
01:02:39,606 --> 01:02:40,333
>> you said
in

1170
01:02:40,333 --> 01:02:43,422
that same business meeting
that the

1171
01:02:43,422 --> 01:02:46,168
the jump start tax, the
Amazon tax is like hard on

1172
01:02:46,168 --> 01:02:47,677
big business in this city.

1173
01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:48,737
>> No, I didn't say that.

1174
01:02:48,739 --> 01:02:52,018
I said that it's not ideal to
have a business environment.

1175
01:02:52,018 --> 01:02:54,637
>> You've talked multiple
times in this meeting

1176
01:02:54,637 --> 01:02:57,322
about progressive revenue
and are indicating to

1177
01:02:57,322 --> 01:03:00,137
business leaders that that's
like harmful to them.

1178
01:03:00,139 --> 01:03:00,458
So what is it?

1179
01:03:00,458 --> 01:03:01,099
>> No, no, no, no, no.

1180
01:03:01,099 --> 01:03:04,197
I said very specifically
that it's not ideal

1181
01:03:04,197 --> 01:03:07,378
to have a business
environment including the

1182
01:03:07,378 --> 01:03:09,670
tax environment in Seattle
that is dramatically

1183
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:12,018
different from our
neighboring city of Bellevue.

1184
01:03:12,018 --> 01:03:13,018
I believe that's true.

1185
01:03:13,018 --> 01:03:15,402
I support a statewide, this
is one of the reasons why I

1186
01:03:15,402 --> 01:03:17,800
really liked Representative
Sean Scott's bill to do

1187
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,884
a statewide big business
tax with a credit for

1188
01:03:19,884 --> 01:03:22,818
Seattle businesses because
that levels the playing field.

1189
01:03:22,818 --> 01:03:25,213
So I think the big companies
can afford to pay more, but

1190
01:03:25,213 --> 01:03:27,255
it's not good to give
them an incentive to go

1191
01:03:27,255 --> 01:03:28,199
over to Bellevue.

1192
01:03:28,199 --> 01:03:30,322
Then why are you not
fighting statewide

1193
01:03:30,322 --> 01:03:31,739
mobilize working people.

1194
01:03:38,838 --> 01:03:44,179
So to the question whether the
CCTV cameras make you safe.

1195
01:03:44,179 --> 01:03:47,239
Your answer was no.

1196
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:50,922
Then you also said that
currently the data

1197
01:03:50,922 --> 01:03:54,784
from the CCTV cameras Sitting
on servers outside of

1198
01:03:54,784 --> 01:03:58,322
Washington state and hence
we don't know to which laws

1199
01:03:58,322 --> 01:04:02,172
they like they're not following
the Washington state laws

1200
01:04:02,172 --> 01:04:04,217
right camera with our footage.

1201
01:04:04,219 --> 01:04:08,210
Then you said that actually
the SPD sharing data is not

1202
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:12,378
defined or something like you
can correct me here but you

1203
01:04:12,378 --> 01:04:16,371
said that there is not right
now something that SPD has

1204
01:04:16,371 --> 01:04:20,539
not defined and you are doing
order that is not going to be

1205
01:04:20,539 --> 01:04:22,757
done until the end of the year.

1206
01:04:22,759 --> 01:04:27,715
And all of this made you make
a decision to move forward

1207
01:04:27,715 --> 01:04:30,139
with the cameras for FIFA.

1208
01:04:30,139 --> 01:04:33,818
Where are we going to have
countries like Qatar, Egypt,

1209
01:04:33,818 --> 01:04:37,818
and Iran playing and that means
that immigrant population,

1210
01:04:37,818 --> 01:04:41,409
Any of them who are American
citizens and 10,000 people

1211
01:04:41,409 --> 01:04:44,373
are going to be attending
the game and they're

1212
01:04:44,373 --> 01:04:45,777
going to be targeted.

1213
01:04:45,777 --> 01:04:48,603
But more than that, not
only American citizens,

1214
01:04:48,603 --> 01:04:51,498
not only immigrant citizens
are targeted by ICE.

1215
01:04:51,498 --> 01:04:55,067
ICE is not collecting
biometric data on citizens

1216
01:04:55,067 --> 01:04:56,458
who are traveling.

1217
01:04:56,458 --> 01:05:00,206
When you enter about the
United States, you have to

1218
01:05:00,206 --> 01:05:04,577
take a picture and I says that
collecting biometric data on

1219
01:05:04,577 --> 01:05:06,719
every citizen is important.

1220
01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:09,293
So can you explain it
just doesn't adopt unless

1221
01:05:09,293 --> 01:05:10,679
you're a lot of years old.

1222
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,422
So, okay, I feel like you
asked like 12 questions and I

1223
01:05:13,422 --> 01:05:14,858
want to respond to them all.

1224
01:05:19,498 --> 01:05:23,483
Okay, so I'm going to try
to respond to a few things

1225
01:05:23,483 --> 01:05:24,648
that you said.

1226
01:05:24,648 --> 01:05:25,717
So I said that

1227
01:05:27,918 --> 01:05:30,351
in response to Florangela's
question that cameras

1228
01:05:30,351 --> 01:05:32,867
in a particular instance
would not have made me

1229
01:05:32,867 --> 01:05:33,532
feel safe.

1230
01:05:33,532 --> 01:05:36,119
However, my experience
is not everyone's

1231
01:05:36,119 --> 01:05:38,324
experience and I also have
the privilege of living in

1232
01:05:38,324 --> 01:05:40,527
actually a very relatively
The safety of the city and

1233
01:05:40,527 --> 01:05:41,478
the safety of the city.

1234
01:05:41,478 --> 01:05:45,001
And so I understand that there
are many people who live in

1235
01:05:45,001 --> 01:05:47,099
other neighborhoods in Seattle.

1236
01:05:47,099 --> 01:05:49,516
And a camera presence in
their neighborhood does

1237
01:05:49,516 --> 01:05:50,577
make them feel safer.

1238
01:05:50,579 --> 01:05:52,159
And I don't want to
discount their experience.

1239
01:05:52,159 --> 01:05:54,438
Now, again, I'm not like I
don't think that anyone's

1240
01:05:54,438 --> 01:05:56,719
feelings about this are
what should govern policy.

1241
01:05:56,719 --> 01:06:01,438
But I do think that that's
an important consideration.

1242
01:06:01,438 --> 01:06:06,652
The, I'm trying to
remember, so the, there was

1243
01:06:06,652 --> 01:06:09,878
like 10 more things.

1244
01:06:09,878 --> 01:06:11,498
The audit is gonna
take a few months

1245
01:06:11,498 --> 01:06:14,159
and part of that audit is
looking at the security

1246
01:06:14,159 --> 01:06:16,559
of that data that is held
on servers in other states.

1247
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:20,538
So we are trying to assess
what the level of risk is

1248
01:06:22,199 --> 01:06:25,139
In that whole system.

1249
01:06:26,699 --> 01:06:29,277
Anyway, let's move on.

1250
01:06:29,277 --> 01:06:32,547
There's there's other
things I wanted to say

1251
01:06:32,547 --> 01:06:34,139
but I can't remember.

1252
01:06:34,139 --> 01:06:35,199
Hi, I'm Helen.

1253
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:37,378
I'm with radical women.

1254
01:06:37,378 --> 01:06:41,097
And we oppose this system at
the start and we still oppose

1255
01:06:41,097 --> 01:06:44,646
it and think it's a danger to
the community for the same

1256
01:06:44,646 --> 01:06:48,498
reasons danger to immigrants
danger to people of color who

1257
01:06:48,498 --> 01:06:54,139
are stereotyped danger to women
who are fleeing domestic abuse

1258
01:06:54,139 --> 01:06:58,518
to people fleeing from states
where their reproductive

1259
01:06:58,518 --> 01:07:01,492
health and gender health
care are illegal and

1260
01:07:01,492 --> 01:07:03,639
states could subpoena
Information.

1261
01:07:03,639 --> 01:07:06,563
I mean we also laugh we
know the federal government

1262
01:07:06,563 --> 01:07:07,677
you can trust them.

1263
01:07:07,679 --> 01:07:10,702
But if people have been
activists here for a while they

1264
01:07:10,702 --> 01:07:14,795
know you can't trust the Seattle
Police Department you can't

1265
01:07:14,795 --> 01:07:19,159
trust the county can't trust
the judges to rule fairly.

1266
01:07:19,159 --> 01:07:23,418
You can't trust the state to
not spy and release its stuff.

1267
01:07:23,418 --> 01:07:27,351
So this is proven history that's
data that has been proven

1268
01:07:27,351 --> 01:07:29,318
on every level over decades.

1269
01:07:29,318 --> 01:07:32,356
If there is information it
will be abused by these

1270
01:07:32,356 --> 01:07:34,059
law enforcement agencies.

1271
01:07:34,059 --> 01:07:38,418
What's not proved is whether
it prevents any crime.

1272
01:07:38,418 --> 01:07:43,739
You know, it's sort
of ridiculous.

1273
01:07:43,739 --> 01:07:53,739
[inaudible]

1274
01:07:55,378 --> 01:08:02,498
[applause]

1275
01:08:02,498 --> 01:08:03,864
Hi my name is Sochi.

1276
01:08:03,864 --> 01:08:05,914
I worked on Katie's campaign

1277
01:08:05,914 --> 01:08:10,179
and oversaw the 50,000 door
effort that got her elected

1278
01:08:10,179 --> 01:08:12,878
and so I have a
couple questions.

1279
01:08:12,878 --> 01:08:15,451
One, well one's a
comment, it cost me a

1280
01:08:15,451 --> 01:08:18,278
dollar 25 to do a public
records request and get 30

1281
01:08:18,278 --> 01:08:19,176
minutes of video.

1282
01:08:19,176 --> 01:08:20,676
I picked a random camera so I'm

1283
01:08:20,676 --> 01:08:21,759
not sure why you need a

1284
01:08:23,756 --> 01:08:27,537
I'm going to go back
to the disclosable.

1285
01:08:27,537 --> 01:08:31,297
Publicola reported that you knew
that Chief Barnes was on the

1286
01:08:31,297 --> 01:08:33,957
advisory committee for
the NYU policing project.

1287
01:08:33,957 --> 01:08:38,060
So how can the public have trust
in this audit with a very clear

1288
01:08:38,060 --> 01:08:39,979
conflict of interest?

1289
01:08:39,979 --> 01:08:48,377
And was there any competitive
procurement for that contractor?

1290
01:08:48,377 --> 01:08:51,319
And I will also say I think
you're splitting hairs by saying

1291
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:55,158
you didn't this wasn't part of
your platform because I think

1292
01:08:55,158 --> 01:08:59,259
me and the 1,355 people who
signed a letter to you would

1293
01:08:59,259 --> 01:09:03,345
You have said that yes
being against surveillance

1294
01:09:03,345 --> 01:09:05,096
was on your platform.

1295
01:09:05,099 --> 01:09:11,082
And also lastly on April
10th we're going to hold a

1296
01:09:11,082 --> 01:09:14,439
rally at City Hall at 12 p.m.

1297
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,149
Hopefully we'll be celebrating
you realigning with the platform

1298
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:19,500
that got you elected and

1299
01:09:30,037 --> 01:09:32,975
Hi Mayor, I'm Graham.

1300
01:09:32,975 --> 01:09:35,752
I'm in fair context.

1301
01:09:35,752 --> 01:09:39,180
Oh, there was a question.

1302
01:09:39,180 --> 01:09:44,207
Apologies. So, okay, So
you asked a question

1303
01:09:44,207 --> 01:09:46,078
about NYU policing.

1304
01:09:46,078 --> 01:09:48,559
And I will say that--
so first of all,

1305
01:09:48,559 --> 01:09:52,917
Chief Barnes has stepped down
from the board of NYU policing.

1306
01:09:52,917 --> 01:09:56,439
And I-- and we were at--
I don't know if I--

1307
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:58,658
we were not aware
that he was going

1308
01:09:58,658 --> 01:10:02,118
to be on the board when we were
initially having conversations

1309
01:10:02,118 --> 01:10:04,158
And again, he has stepped down.

1310
01:10:04,158 --> 01:10:08,377
We did talk with a number
of-- in figuring out who

1311
01:10:08,377 --> 01:10:11,979
could do this audit, We
talked with other potential

1312
01:10:11,979 --> 01:10:16,051
auditors and NYU policing
was really the one that

1313
01:10:16,051 --> 01:10:20,618
like has the ability the
experience to do this audit so.

1314
01:10:22,118 --> 01:10:25,898
No it was not an RFP because
we wanted to do it fast and

1315
01:10:25,898 --> 01:10:31,398
so if we want to do something
in a timely manner so but yeah.

1316
01:10:32,537 --> 01:10:37,037
We're pretty careful
not to break city laws.

1317
01:10:37,037 --> 01:10:40,872
So yeah anyway happy to happy
to have ideas for other

1318
01:10:40,872 --> 01:10:47,100
entities that could do the
audit But that was the one that

1319
01:10:47,100 --> 01:10:54,938
we were able to find that
was in a position to do it.

1320
01:10:54,939 --> 01:10:57,256
What that we knew he
was on the board when.

1321
01:11:01,078 --> 01:11:06,698
We found out somewhere during
this process that he was

1322
01:11:06,698 --> 01:11:09,198
going to be on the board.

1323
01:11:09,198 --> 01:11:11,938
Again, he has stepped down
from the board anyway,

1324
01:11:11,938 --> 01:11:14,877
we can we can provide you
more information about that

1325
01:11:14,877 --> 01:11:18,082
But again happy to have ideas
we were we looked for other

1326
01:11:18,082 --> 01:11:20,938
other entities that would
be able to do this audit

1327
01:11:20,938 --> 01:11:25,759
Okay Actually on that

1328
01:11:25,759 --> 01:11:26,938
note so chum news

1329
01:11:27,979 --> 01:11:30,752
In collaboration with the
South Seattle Emerald has

1330
01:11:30,752 --> 01:11:33,975
been doing some reporting
About NYE policing project.

1331
01:11:33,975 --> 01:11:37,346
The project has historically
received funding from

1332
01:11:37,346 --> 01:11:41,179
policing technology providers
like Axon and ShotSpotter.

1333
01:11:44,578 --> 01:11:48,948
Why should we trust the
policing project's audit

1334
01:11:48,948 --> 01:11:53,319
do more credible and
neutral arbiters not exist?

1335
01:11:53,319 --> 01:11:56,666
Yeah, I mean and again I think
like we would be members of

1336
01:11:56,666 --> 01:12:00,067
my team are over there and we
would be very happy to hear

1337
01:12:00,067 --> 01:12:03,599
like ideas of other entities
that could perform this.

1338
01:12:06,417 --> 01:12:13,398
And we tried and we tried.

1339
01:12:13,399 --> 01:12:17,149
So we have a hard out at 730
and I'm just mindful at 716

1340
01:12:17,149 --> 01:12:21,323
and there's a lot more folks
I just want to say if you've

1341
01:12:21,323 --> 01:12:26,636
heard your question or comment
already expressed, please maybe

1342
01:12:26,636 --> 01:12:29,920
Give some space and time
to the person behind you

1343
01:12:31,377 --> 01:12:33,712
All right, hi, I'm Graham
I did data work for your

1344
01:12:33,712 --> 01:12:34,997
campaign full disclosure

1345
01:12:36,037 --> 01:12:38,246
I just want to say first thank
you for being here and actually

1346
01:12:38,246 --> 01:12:39,479
having this conversation
with people.

1347
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,997
It's really nice to have a
mayor who talks to the people.

1348
01:12:41,997 --> 01:12:44,136
So thank you so much for that.

1349
01:12:44,136 --> 01:12:47,613
Second piece, could you talk a
bit about the metrics you'll

1350
01:12:47,613 --> 01:12:51,554
actually be using to determine
in this audit if the

1351
01:12:51,554 --> 01:12:54,698
cameras are safe and secure?

1352
01:12:54,698 --> 01:12:59,355
Yeah, I mean I
think I'm not sure.

1353
01:12:59,359 --> 01:13:03,201
I'm not sure what metric I mean
I think they're going to they're

1354
01:13:03,201 --> 01:13:06,600
going to be coming back with
like an analysis of the ways

1355
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,515
that the data is being held and
any vulnerabilities that exist.

1356
01:13:10,519 --> 01:13:14,707
Again the piece that I'm most
concerned about is like the

1357
01:13:14,707 --> 01:13:19,171
out of state servers where
the footage is being

1358
01:13:19,171 --> 01:13:22,837
uploaded to evidence.com.

1359
01:13:22,837 --> 01:13:25,305
And so I assume that we will
be getting some information

1360
01:13:25,305 --> 01:13:27,399
about what vulnerabilities
might exist there.

1361
01:13:27,399 --> 01:13:30,680
And also I think on the masking
is another area where again

1362
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:31,979
we have been told by SPD

1363
01:13:36,578 --> 01:13:36,859
So I think that's
a good question.

1364
01:14:00,198 --> 01:14:05,136
Thank you Mayor Wilson.

1365
01:14:05,136 --> 01:14:10,813
My name is Curtis Atkisson.

1366
01:14:10,813 --> 01:14:17,478
So much of the discussion around

1367
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,779
Data safety rests on keeping
the data out of the wrong

1368
01:14:20,779 --> 01:14:24,720
hands, but that assumes that
the hands the data are going

1369
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,679
into are the right hands.

1370
01:14:26,679 --> 01:14:30,957
SPD is not seen as a neutral
institution by many people in

1371
01:14:30,957 --> 01:14:35,045
the city, especially, especially
the people who live in

1372
01:14:35,045 --> 01:14:38,259
the neighborhoods that
expansion will go into.

1373
01:14:38,259 --> 01:14:42,685
Data shows that increasing trust
and legitimacy in institutions

1374
01:14:42,685 --> 01:14:47,377
increases case clearance rates
more clearly than cameras do.

1375
01:14:47,377 --> 01:14:51,336
And as the students in Rainier
Valley and the youth convened

1376
01:14:51,336 --> 01:14:54,880
by Washington bus said,
remote surveillance of those

1377
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,957
communities will decrease trust
and perceived legitimacy in

1378
01:14:58,957 --> 01:15:00,297
our institutions.

1379
01:15:00,297 --> 01:15:04,661
So why are we investing in
CCTV and an RTCC instead of

1380
01:15:04,661 --> 01:15:09,996
doing the hard work of building
trust between communities

1381
01:15:09,996 --> 01:15:12,457
and those institutions?

1382
01:15:13,497 --> 01:15:17,131
And if you were to go forward
with this institution

1383
01:15:17,131 --> 01:15:20,417
or with this expansion,
what would you commit

1384
01:15:32,636 --> 01:15:36,862
Yeah, so I mean I think as
I've said a few times I do not

1385
01:15:36,862 --> 01:15:40,462
see the cameras as our public
safety strategy and they're

1386
01:15:40,462 --> 01:15:43,056
certainly not a substitute for
building real trust between

1387
01:15:46,136 --> 01:15:49,969
And so that is a whole
nother body of work that

1388
01:15:49,969 --> 01:15:52,037
my office is working on.

1389
01:15:52,037 --> 01:15:54,707
And you know, there are,
I mean, we're developing

1390
01:15:54,707 --> 01:15:57,377
a whole strategy around
gun violence prevention

1391
01:15:57,377 --> 01:16:00,336
that, you know, involves both
the police and community

1392
01:16:00,336 --> 01:16:01,556
based organizations.

1393
01:16:01,556 --> 01:16:05,206
We're developing better kind of
neighborhood based safety plans

1394
01:16:05,206 --> 01:16:08,501
that, you know, will involve
That kind of various ways

1395
01:16:08,501 --> 01:16:11,417
of trying to build more
trust and that's the

1396
01:16:11,417 --> 01:16:14,364
kind of a neighborhood specific
thing right the kind of

1397
01:16:14,364 --> 01:16:17,078
what's needed in Capitol Hill
is different from what's needed

1398
01:16:17,078 --> 01:16:19,826
in Rainier Beach is different
from what's needed in the

1399
01:16:19,826 --> 01:16:22,520
central district and so that
is I mean honestly that

1400
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,243
is a much more important
and labor intensive body

1401
01:16:25,243 --> 01:16:28,837
of work than deciding what
to do about the cameras.

1402
01:16:28,837 --> 01:16:31,828
So absolutely there and I will
just say that like I wouldn't

1403
01:16:31,828 --> 01:16:34,576
make and you made a pretty
blanket statement about the

1404
01:16:34,576 --> 01:16:37,810
neighborhoods that these cameras
are going to be and how people

1405
01:16:37,810 --> 01:16:39,337
feel in those neighborhoods.

1406
01:16:39,337 --> 01:16:40,546
I would say it is complicated.

1407
01:16:40,546 --> 01:16:42,868
You want to go and talk to those
thousand people who signed

1408
01:16:42,868 --> 01:16:45,094
a petition in the Chinatown
International District in

1409
01:16:45,094 --> 01:16:46,497
support of surveillance cameras.

1410
01:16:46,497 --> 01:16:52,118
You know those people
are out there too.

1411
01:16:52,118 --> 01:16:55,305
Hi my name is Sage Mitchell
and I'm a member of Radical

1412
01:16:55,305 --> 01:16:59,957
Women and I have also worked
as a cybersecurity researcher.

1413
01:16:59,957 --> 01:17:02,569
Given the number and
variety of entities that

1414
01:17:02,569 --> 01:17:05,317
affect surveillance
operations not to mention

1415
01:17:05,319 --> 01:17:09,064
The levers of control granted
to the federal government by

1416
01:17:09,064 --> 01:17:10,899
the Patriot Act and so forth.

1417
01:17:10,899 --> 01:17:15,210
How confident are you in
your ability to continually

1418
01:17:15,210 --> 01:17:18,636
and accurately audit
and influence who or

1419
01:17:18,636 --> 01:17:22,157
what can access the data and
whether our rights are upheld.

1420
01:17:22,158 --> 01:17:27,319
Thank you.

1421
01:17:28,676 --> 01:17:32,590
You know, I mean, I think
that our job as my job as an

1422
01:17:32,590 --> 01:17:38,014
elected official and the job of
the city government is to put

1423
01:17:38,014 --> 01:17:43,319
in place as robust guardrails
and oversight and, you

1424
01:17:43,319 --> 01:17:45,359
know, protective
policies as we can.

1425
01:17:45,359 --> 01:17:47,259
And it's always a work
in progress, right?

1426
01:17:47,259 --> 01:17:49,104
So we'll do the best
we can and then we'll

1427
01:17:49,104 --> 01:17:51,118
look for vulnerabilities
and we'll do, you

1428
01:17:51,118 --> 01:17:52,692
know, an audit of how
we're doing and we'll

1429
01:17:52,692 --> 01:17:53,319
try to do better.

1430
01:17:53,319 --> 01:17:55,859
And if there's like a breach
or something then that tells

1431
01:17:55,859 --> 01:17:57,157
us we need to do better right.

1432
01:17:57,158 --> 01:18:02,658
Like I know there's not you know
I I'm pretty confident in the

1433
01:18:02,658 --> 01:18:06,921
path that we're on and having
seen kind of what I know now of

1434
01:18:06,921 --> 01:18:10,096
how the system works and what
we're doing now to try to get

1435
01:18:10,096 --> 01:18:12,176
more oversight and put
better policies in place.

1436
01:18:12,176 --> 01:18:13,978
So but I can't say that
I'm 100 percent sure.

1437
01:18:13,978 --> 01:18:16,822
I don't think any of us
can say we're 100% sure

1438
01:18:16,822 --> 01:18:18,359
of very much these days.

1439
01:18:20,359 --> 01:18:23,877
>> Hello, first of all,
there's no safe surveillance

1440
01:18:23,877 --> 01:18:25,238
in a fascist nation.

1441
01:18:25,238 --> 01:18:25,470
>>

1442
01:18:25,470 --> 01:18:26,636
[APPLAUSE]

1443
01:18:27,676 --> 01:18:28,698
>> My name's Coco.

1444
01:18:28,698 --> 01:18:29,636
>> Can you say that again?

1445
01:18:29,636 --> 01:18:32,939
>> I just said there's
no safe surveillance

1446
01:18:32,939 --> 01:18:34,500
in a fascist nation.

1447
01:18:34,500 --> 01:18:36,018
And I'm Coco.

1448
01:18:36,018 --> 01:18:38,042
I am a teacher who works
with students with

1449
01:18:38,042 --> 01:18:39,259
learning disabilities.

1450
01:18:39,259 --> 01:18:42,573
I first started tutoring
people in the King County jail

1451
01:18:42,573 --> 01:18:44,158
who did not have their GED.

1452
01:18:44,158 --> 01:18:46,578
Those were children
we already failed.

1453
01:18:46,578 --> 01:18:48,844
Later I had a contract
working with students who

1454
01:18:48,844 --> 01:18:50,997
were considered failing
students in failing

1455
01:18:50,997 --> 01:18:54,238
schools in Seattle and all
the schools that I could see.

1456
01:18:54,238 --> 01:18:56,198
For students I could see
were in the South End.

1457
01:18:56,198 --> 01:18:58,697
You said you changed your
mind about surveillance

1458
01:18:58,697 --> 01:19:00,837
with community violence
and then today you

1459
01:19:00,837 --> 01:19:04,470
We know cameras actually just
help maybe protect property so

1460
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:07,823
I just see a discrepancy and
I wonder what would happen if

1461
01:19:07,823 --> 01:19:11,456
you come to millions that we're
spending on cameras directly

1462
01:19:11,456 --> 01:19:14,877
into the families and the
neighborhoods and the children

1463
01:19:14,877 --> 01:19:18,653
and youth programming because
we know resourcing community is

1464
01:19:18,653 --> 01:19:20,719
what actually prevents violence.

1465
01:19:22,158 --> 01:19:23,417
[applause]

1466
01:19:23,417 --> 01:19:25,018
[audience applause]

1467
01:19:25,018 --> 01:19:27,894
When you say you change your
mind talking to families

1468
01:19:27,894 --> 01:19:30,703
impacted by violence and
having worked with so many

1469
01:19:30,703 --> 01:19:33,908
students who are the ones who
get disenfranchised and then

1470
01:19:33,908 --> 01:19:36,979
end up in our system, which
is happening again right now,

1471
01:19:36,979 --> 01:19:39,858
I'm just wondering, why are
we still investing in the

1472
01:19:39,858 --> 01:19:42,863
cameras if you say it might
protect property and we know

1473
01:19:42,863 --> 01:19:45,609
it has a track record of
being racist technology as

1474
01:19:45,609 --> 01:19:48,551
well? Why are we still pumping
money over there when we

1475
01:19:48,551 --> 01:19:50,969
could be just giving
those millions to kids?

1476
01:19:50,969 --> 01:19:51,622
(applause)

1477
01:19:51,622 --> 01:19:57,618
So this I think is a good
opportunity just to say a little

1478
01:19:57,618 --> 01:20:02,283
bit more about some of the
ways that the cameras can

1479
01:20:02,283 --> 01:20:04,297
provide a public benefit.

1480
01:20:04,297 --> 01:20:07,206
So yes, some of the research
says that they can deter

1481
01:20:07,206 --> 01:20:08,559
property crime, right?

1482
01:20:08,559 --> 01:20:12,310
But the other thing I'm trying
to say is that they're useful

1483
01:20:12,310 --> 01:20:14,377
in solving crimes and in talking

1484
01:20:15,457 --> 01:20:17,296
- To victims, the
families of victims,

1485
01:20:17,296 --> 01:20:21,096
that is something that is
very important to people.

1486
01:20:21,096 --> 01:20:22,738
I think that's important.

1487
01:20:22,738 --> 01:20:25,738
And absolutely, and
that is why cameras

1488
01:20:25,738 --> 01:20:27,779
are not our public
safety strategy.

1489
01:20:27,779 --> 01:20:29,198
But in addition to
solving crimes,

1490
01:20:29,198 --> 01:20:31,719
there's just a couple of things.

1491
01:20:31,719 --> 01:20:33,438
So one of the ways these
cameras are useful

1492
01:20:33,438 --> 01:20:36,957
in the course of solving crimes
is by ruling out suspects

1493
01:20:36,957 --> 01:20:39,457
who did, people
who did not do it.

1494
01:20:39,457 --> 01:20:42,701
So if the police are able to
look at footage from a camera

1495
01:20:42,701 --> 01:20:45,872
and see who did something,
then that makes it less like

1496
01:20:45,872 --> 01:20:49,185
they then when someone points
at someone and says I think

1497
01:20:49,185 --> 01:20:52,354
it was that guy and they can
say no, we have the footage.

1498
01:20:52,358 --> 01:20:53,496
It wasn't that guy.

1499
01:20:53,496 --> 01:20:55,417
They're not arresting that guy.

1500
01:20:55,417 --> 01:21:09,804
Okay, so that is something
which I think we should all

1501
01:21:09,804 --> 01:21:17,978
think about right and hold on.

1502
01:21:17,978 --> 01:21:19,457
So let me just say
one more thing.

1503
01:21:19,457 --> 01:21:22,582
So that's one thing and I
think there's also a dynamic

1504
01:21:22,582 --> 01:21:25,778
of sometimes when a violent
crime happens, if it's the

1505
01:21:25,778 --> 01:21:28,902
kind of crime that could
provoke retaliation, there

1506
01:21:28,902 --> 01:21:32,238
can be pressure on witnesses
to come forward publicly in

1507
01:21:32,238 --> 01:21:33,801
order to solve that crime.

1508
01:21:33,801 --> 01:21:36,180
If there's camera evidence,
then that often means that

1509
01:21:36,180 --> 01:21:38,511
witnesses do not need to
come forward publicly, which

1510
01:21:38,511 --> 01:21:39,596
can help to protect them.

1511
01:21:39,596 --> 01:21:42,511
Now, I'm just I'm saying
and this is part of like

1512
01:21:42,511 --> 01:21:45,350
I'm not I'm saying that
these are things that I

1513
01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:46,993
think we need to consider.

1514
01:21:46,997 --> 01:21:48,859
Also, I don't know how
often those things happen.

1515
01:21:48,859 --> 01:21:50,747
Right. So I'm not saying because
of these things, we should

1516
01:21:50,747 --> 01:21:51,596
all be in favor of cameras.

1517
01:21:51,596 --> 01:21:54,247
I'm just saying these are
things to consider in how these

1518
01:21:54,247 --> 01:21:57,179
cameras are actually used and
ways that they can actually I

1519
01:21:57,179 --> 01:22:00,537
think benefit the communities
that you're that you're talking

1520
01:22:00,537 --> 01:22:01,457
about.

1521
01:22:06,796 --> 01:22:11,462
Hi my name is Jim
Baines I'm from the

1522
01:22:11,462 --> 01:22:14,837
American Party of Labor.

1523
01:22:14,837 --> 01:22:18,096
First I want to say policing
is inherently classist.

1524
01:22:18,096 --> 01:22:21,136
The people who are being
surveilled are the lower class,

1525
01:22:21,136 --> 01:22:25,337
are the working poor, the
people who want cameras,

1526
01:22:25,337 --> 01:22:26,518
they're business owners.

1527
01:22:26,518 --> 01:22:28,318
They're small business
owners who want to protect

1528
01:22:28,318 --> 01:22:29,957
their private property.

1529
01:22:29,957 --> 01:22:33,698
But you've also said
that SPD doesn't use AI

1530
01:22:33,698 --> 01:22:35,417
within its police
surveillance technology

1531
01:22:35,417 --> 01:22:36,618
for facial recognition.

1532
01:22:36,618 --> 01:22:40,219
But Axon Technologies uses
AI within its automatic

1533
01:22:40,219 --> 01:22:41,056
license plate readers.

1534
01:22:41,056 --> 01:22:44,118
Automatic license plate readers
are not guaranteed to get

1535
01:22:44,118 --> 01:22:45,618
the right information down.

1536
01:22:45,618 --> 01:22:49,000
What happens when a citizen
is wrongfully arrested

1537
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,256
because of an ALPR?

1538
01:22:50,259 --> 01:22:53,087
What happens when they're jailed
for a long period of time,

1539
01:22:53,087 --> 01:22:55,858
lose their livelihood, their
job, they lose their house?

1540
01:22:55,858 --> 01:22:58,694
What are you going to do about
it because that is going

1541
01:22:58,694 --> 01:23:01,658
to increasingly happen the
more we have these cameras?

1542
01:23:01,658 --> 01:23:02,759
[applause]

1543
01:23:04,318 --> 01:23:06,947
So we haven't really
talked about ALPRs.

1544
01:23:06,947 --> 01:23:09,341
So Seattle's ALPRs
we have put we have

1545
01:23:09,341 --> 01:23:13,207
turned off for the time being
because there's a new state law

1546
01:23:13,207 --> 01:23:16,608
which we're trying to figure
out make sure that we are

1547
01:23:16,608 --> 01:23:18,538
coming into compliance with.

1548
01:23:18,538 --> 01:23:22,582
So what happens when SPD
goes and violates those

1549
01:23:22,582 --> 01:23:27,230
policies? This is a police
department that just got off

1550
01:23:27,230 --> 01:23:28,948
its consent decree.

1551
01:23:28,948 --> 01:23:31,578
How can we trust
the police to go

1552
01:23:31,578 --> 01:23:33,701
and not use AI in this way?

1553
01:23:33,701 --> 01:23:36,788
Hi my name is Julian
Kinberg also from the

1554
01:23:36,788 --> 01:23:38,698
American Party of Labor.

1555
01:23:38,698 --> 01:23:41,938
You said you consider
yourself a socialist.

1556
01:23:41,938 --> 01:23:45,747
At the very minimum that would
be looking out for the interests

1557
01:23:45,747 --> 01:23:49,336
of the working class and not
partnering with big business.

1558
01:23:49,337 --> 01:23:52,078
Mass surveillance overwhelmingly
suppresses the working class.

1559
01:23:52,078 --> 01:23:56,078
You must be aware of this.

1560
01:23:56,078 --> 01:23:58,251
Others have pointed out
that that the money

1561
01:23:58,251 --> 01:23:59,398
could be better spent.

1562
01:23:59,398 --> 01:24:02,716
Do you know how much the
Axon contract is worth?

1563
01:24:02,719 --> 01:24:07,118
It's $165 million.

1564
01:24:07,118 --> 01:24:11,858
Are you aware also that
Axon sells technology

1565
01:24:11,858 --> 01:24:14,059
to the Israeli government,
the Israeli military?

1566
01:24:14,059 --> 01:24:17,599
Were you aware of that?

1567
01:24:17,599 --> 01:24:20,636
I think a lot of companies
sell technology to the Israeli

1568
01:24:26,978 --> 01:24:32,796
So I I'm just going to jump
in and I'm you're going to be

1569
01:24:32,796 --> 01:24:33,854
mad at me.

1570
01:24:33,854 --> 01:24:34,912
It's 728.

1571
01:24:34,912 --> 01:24:37,286
We have a heart out at 730.

1572
01:24:37,286 --> 01:24:41,112
But I did want to say
that mayor@seattle.gov

1573
01:24:41,112 --> 01:24:43,377
is the best way to reach you

1574
01:24:43,377 --> 01:24:47,560
if you wanted
to translate what you were

1575
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:49,698
going to say here directly.

1576
01:24:49,698 --> 01:24:53,100
I did have a question and
you kind of brought it up,

1577
01:24:53,100 --> 01:24:56,256
which was is your vision
-- you want to finish?

1578
01:24:56,259 --> 01:24:59,219
Okay. Apologies then.

1579
01:24:59,219 --> 01:25:01,377
>> My name is Rick McKinnon.

1580
01:25:01,377 --> 01:25:03,850
In an ideal world we
wouldn't need surveillance

1581
01:25:03,850 --> 01:25:06,198
cameras because everybody
would be behaving

1582
01:25:08,219 --> 01:25:12,037
courteously but we don't
have that situation.

1583
01:25:12,037 --> 01:25:16,078
I read in the Seattle Times
recently that they identified

1584
01:25:16,078 --> 01:25:19,814
the suspect in the shooting
deaths of the two students

1585
01:25:19,814 --> 01:25:23,818
in Rainier Beach and part of
the detective's work involved

1586
01:25:23,818 --> 01:25:26,533
Looking at surveillance
video from neighborhood

1587
01:25:26,533 --> 01:25:27,957
neighboring businesses.

1588
01:25:27,957 --> 01:25:32,560
I think there's a there's
a good there's there's

1589
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,229
value in there's value
in surveillance video

1590
01:25:36,229 --> 01:25:37,259
and I know that in

1591
01:25:43,176 --> 01:25:46,698
If we were planting people we
could have done a lot more.

1592
01:25:49,176 --> 01:25:53,577
So please don't cut
me off in 30 seconds.

1593
01:25:53,578 --> 01:25:56,898
Hola. Mi nombre es Adriana.

1594
01:25:56,898 --> 01:26:05,698
(speaking in foreign language)

1595
01:26:46,238 --> 01:26:52,587
Hello everyone, my name is
Adriana and I am from Venezuela,

1596
01:26:52,587 --> 01:26:57,341
but I have actually been here
Venezuelan community for a long

1597
01:26:57,341 --> 01:26:59,720
time and I am a member of
a really large Venezuelan

1598
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:03,323
community that is going through
so many different difficulties

1599
01:27:03,323 --> 01:27:06,916
and I feel like through this
event it actually sounds

1600
01:27:06,916 --> 01:27:10,430
like the promotion and the
continuation of the cameras

1601
01:27:10,430 --> 01:27:13,109
is much more important than
actually solving the issues of

1602
01:27:13,109 --> 01:27:15,877
migrant communities that are
going through many, many

1603
01:27:15,877 --> 01:27:19,707
different difficulties and
Actually a couple weeks ago we

1604
01:27:19,707 --> 01:27:23,259
had a meeting with Alexis Rink
and Dion Foster and we also

1605
01:27:23,259 --> 01:27:27,707
invited your office too and we
in detail in great detail we

1606
01:27:27,707 --> 01:27:31,336
explained all of the different
difficulties that our community

1607
01:27:31,336 --> 01:27:33,420
is going through and we have
not heard a response from your

1608
01:27:33,420 --> 01:27:35,944
office and so our question to
you is what is more important

1609
01:27:35,944 --> 01:27:40,720
to you the surveillance
of the community or the

1610
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:45,618
well-being of the community.

1611
01:27:45,618 --> 01:27:48,997
Yeah I'm very happy to
engage with your group.

1612
01:27:48,997 --> 01:27:50,917
And yeah I mean the
well-being of the community

1613
01:27:50,917 --> 01:27:54,359
is of very high
importance to me.

1614
01:27:54,359 --> 01:27:56,398
So let's talk more.

1615
01:28:01,417 --> 01:28:05,002
Mayor at Seattle.gov is the
best way to reach Mayor

1616
01:28:05,002 --> 01:28:08,417
Wilson on this issue or I
take it any other issue.

1617
01:28:08,417 --> 01:28:12,524
I did want to ask you just when
you know whether you're the

1618
01:28:12,524 --> 01:28:14,797
mayor for one term or two terms.

1619
01:28:14,797 --> 01:28:18,492
What you can decide
is really creating a

1620
01:28:18,492 --> 01:28:20,618
Seattle of the future.

1621
01:28:20,618 --> 01:28:23,880
When you think of Seattle in 25
years, a Seattle that you're

1622
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:27,073
creating for your child, are
you thinking a Seattle where

1623
01:28:27,073 --> 01:28:28,738
there's cameras everywhere?

1624
01:28:28,738 --> 01:28:32,645
Are you thinking a Seattle
that is so safe we

1625
01:28:32,645 --> 01:28:34,818
don't need technology?

1626
01:28:34,818 --> 01:28:38,259
That's a really easy question.

1627
01:28:38,259 --> 01:28:42,966
Yeah, I mean I would love to be
part of working with community

1628
01:28:42,966 --> 01:28:46,581
to create a Seattle that
is so safe that we don't

1629
01:28:46,581 --> 01:28:48,756
need surveillance cameras.

1630
01:28:50,216 --> 01:28:53,305
Thank you very much for spending
a Friday night with us and

1631
01:28:53,305 --> 01:28:54,978
those watching on live stream.

1632
01:28:54,978 --> 01:28:56,676
Thank you very
much Mayor Wilson.

1633
01:28:56,676 --> 01:28:57,537
Have a good night.

1634
01:28:57,537 --> 01:28:58,537
Thank you.

1635
01:28:58,537 --> 01:28:59,618
I really appreciate
the dialogue.