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[♪♪]

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- I'm really annoyed.

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I'm just.

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I'm really mad. Yeah,

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I just, I don't I don't
feel good about it.

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I feel I'm I'm very mad.

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- Well, welcome again
to Chino y Chicano.

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I'm Enrique Cerna.

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Well, coming
up, my conversation

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with Seattle artist Erin
Shigaki about a mural

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she created in 2020
for Bellevue College.

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The mural, titled
Never Again is Now, 

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depicts two Japanese American

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children in a World War II
incarceration camp.

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It also included
an informational panel

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referencing the role
of local businessman

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Miller Freeman

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in promoting

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anti-Japanese sentiment
during that era.

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Now, after
the mural was unveiled,

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that reference
was removed,

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sparking community
backlash.

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Two Bellevue College
administrators, president

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Jerry Weber and Vice
President Gail Colston Barge

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eventually resigned
following the decision.

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Now, six years later,
a rededication

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of the mural is planned,
but once again controversy

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has emerged.

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This time over a racist
voicemail and questions

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about why it took so long

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for the college
to respond.

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Here now
is my conversation

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with artist
Erin Shigaki.

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I got to imagine that
to some degree,

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all of this stuff,
it's last so long.

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And the controversy
around this, this mural

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and still kind of going,
how do you feel about it?

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- I'm really annoyed.

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I'm just I'm really mad.

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I'm super irritated that

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six years later,

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this place

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is taking up
so much of my brain space.

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You know, I'm, like,
in and out of meetings,

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like, having to deal
with, the feelings

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and desires of staff,
people dealing

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with the administration
of the college,

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not to mention,

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you know, myself

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and then community members
who were like,

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what is this going
to happen?

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Are we going to have
a ceremony?

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What's going on?

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Yeah, I just I don't I
don't feel good about it.

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I feel I'm, I'm very mad.

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- And on top of this,
you had the controversy

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when it was first
unveiled.

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What, in 2020?

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We'll talk about that
more.

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Now here we are, 2026.

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News came out.

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Statement
from Bellevue College.

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About a racist voicemail
that was left.

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I, I read the text
of that

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racist voicemail, and
it was definitely racist.

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It was very profane.

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It was. It was awful.

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But just the fact that

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that still generates
that kind of hate.

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It boggles the mind
after all these years.

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And also in this time,

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especially
when we're dealing with,

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issues of immigration
and immigrants

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being detained,
arrested, deported.

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That's got to be

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extremely irritating.

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- Yeah.

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And it's it's it's
showing me

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once again
how tied our stories are,

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right?

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Like this
kind of sentiment

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where the gentleman
caller,

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you know, called me
the J word six times

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and listed a bunch of war
crimes,

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of Japan again,
I'm American board.

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And also, you know,

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one of those strong echoes

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that has lasted longer

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than most of the other
things he said

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is that go
back to where you're from.

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Sentiment that

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only white people can say,
it seems like

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it's just like it's
you don't even make sense.

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But, you know. Right.
That's not an argument.

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That's not an argument

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that Trump
or any other white person

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who's saying that
we are forever foreigners,

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that we don't belong
in this country,

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that we're
not doing our part.

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Put out there,
you know, like they don't

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claim their own
immigrant roots.

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And they refuse

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they refuse to, to accept

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that we are all immigrants
except indigenous folks.

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You know, like, I know I'm
I'm like a colonial

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Japanese
American immigrant.

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Like, that's where my
what my family is from.

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I know that,

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and I own that, right?

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- At least
as a Mexican American.

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I can point to the fact
that,

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Mexico used to own part
and part of the U.S..

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- Yeah, exactly. The border.
The border crossed.

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The border crossed
you, brother?

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- I actually, I do,
but I don't have it here,

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right here.

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But I have a hat that has,

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it looks like a MAGA
hat with the Trump

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type of thing on it,
except it says,

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“Make America Mexico Again.”

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- I want that hat!

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Yeah, I want that.

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- I'll.

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I'll let you borrow it.

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- Thanks...

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- But let's talk
about, I guess

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also the response
from the college.

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That they did issue
a statement recently,

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kind of acknowledging
that this racist voicemail

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had been, called in

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and how they also were

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saying that this is not
something that the college

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wants represented,

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connected to it
and things like that.

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But you were irritated
about their response

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or maybe their time,

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how timely or
and timely they responded.

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- Yeah.

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You know, the call
came in the same night

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as this press conference
we had announcing,

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that a permanent version

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of the mural
is coming onto campus.

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My parents were there
and some other people

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from the community
and I spoke and,

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and I spoke

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from the heart,
you know, about

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what happened in 2020
and how hard it was.

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And then I spoke about,

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how the work isn't just

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for the Japanese-American
community.

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You know,
it's like to tell how

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interwoven all of these

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stories of detention
and incarceration

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and family separation
are from the start, right?

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And super present today
with what's going

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on, you know,
with Trump's ICE.

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And, you know,

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I thought that

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the college

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reacted with,

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a lot of respect.

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I think there are

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there are some people
at the college

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that were surprised
that Stan Takuma and I

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were up there talking
about these interwoven

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messages, but...

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- Tell me who Stan is.

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- Stan Takuma is one
of my activist mentors.

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He's,

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involved with many civil
rights organizations.

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Right now

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we organize heavily

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together
with Tsuru for Solidarity,

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which is a

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Japanese-American group
that's, working to end

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detention and ICE
facilities, working toward

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Black reparations
and working toward healing

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like everyone

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forgets that piece,
that we need healing

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from all these
things that have happened.

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Yeah.

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So anyway,
it was a great event.

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And then the, the,
the hate message

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came in that night on the
president's voicemail.

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They told me they gave me

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a heads up about it
five days later,

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and I had a chat
with the president

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a couple days after that.

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And then they didn't
put anything out

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to their own community,

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which is 28% Asian
heritage.

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13% of the staff
is Asian heritage.

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Yeah.

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And then the next day,
the 44th day,

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they put out a press
release

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saying
that this message came in.

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And, you know,
that they don't uphold

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any of that
kind of language.

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And yet it is the timing.
It's mostly the timing.

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Like they could have
just put out

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those statements

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right away.

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As simple as they are

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to protect their folks.

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But the silence is
deadly.

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You know that, right?

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Like the
like staying silent.

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What does that
remind me of?

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That reminds me of, like,

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how my whole community
was just rounded up

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and not enough people
stood up.

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Yeah.

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The silence
of complacency,

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of compliance, of like,
oh, I know,

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you know, like I'm
going to not say anything

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because I got to hold on
to what's mine.

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You know,

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- So tell me
about your conversation

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with the Bellevue College
president

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and tell me who
the college president is.

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And David May.
Right? 

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- Yeah.

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His name is Doctor
David May.

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And,

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well,
I, you know, it was a

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it was
a good conversation.

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It was
a one on one Zoom. And

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he he was

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appropriately
mortified and sorry.

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And he asked me
what I wanted to happen.

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And, you know,
one of the things was,

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I think you need to tell
the community

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your community,
the community.

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You know,
and then we talked about

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sort of other logistical
things like,

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what of the Bellevue
Police

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found out.
How many Bellevue

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Police officers

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are going to be at the, 
unveiling event.

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You know,

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what else do I need to
feel comfortable, right.

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So I just feel like.

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Okay, well,
you virtually had not,

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ignored my number one ask.

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So, I'm just left

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feeling
kind of unconfident.

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- So what was the reasoning
that you heard?

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Or have you heard as to
why it took him so long?

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- I don't think I've heard.

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I don't I don't know,
I don't know what it is.

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If if, if they said
something about it.

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- And what were
the number of days

253
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:04,664
and then how long did it
take again?

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I'm sorry.

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- It's 43.

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Let's just say
40 over a month.

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- Okay. Okay.

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And so I take it

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you've talked to them
about that and still

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why did
why did it take so long

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or have
they told you that.

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- We haven't we haven't
had our meeting yet.

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We're meeting this week.

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- Yeah.

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I mentioned

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00:11:23,549 --> 00:11:26,185
they're going to have
a real

267
00:11:26,185 --> 00:11:27,787
fun time day with you

268
00:11:27,787 --> 00:11:29,889
because you look really
pissed.

269
00:11:29,889 --> 00:11:31,757
- So. Yeah.
Have you ever seen me?

270
00:11:31,757 --> 00:11:32,491
This mad?

271
00:11:32,491 --> 00:11:34,026
- No, I never have,
actually.

272
00:11:34,026 --> 00:11:36,195
I've never seen you
this mad at all.

273
00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:38,931
In fact, I've never
seen you where you, work.

274
00:11:40,433 --> 00:11:42,802
You know, usually
it's always smiling, Erin.

275
00:11:42,802 --> 00:11:44,503
Who's
always very positive.

276
00:11:44,503 --> 00:11:46,505
The one that I know
for the most part.

277
00:11:46,505 --> 00:11:49,508
But, and I guess it's,

278
00:11:49,909 --> 00:11:52,378
I guess
in these times being.

279
00:11:52,378 --> 00:11:54,146
Yeah, I would be, too.

280
00:11:54,146 --> 00:11:55,881
Because it's
not only the work

281
00:11:55,881 --> 00:11:57,383
you do, it's
what it represents.

282
00:11:57,383 --> 00:11:59,552
But especially
in these times.

283
00:11:59,552 --> 00:12:03,089
I think you got to
call this stuff out.

284
00:12:04,156 --> 00:12:05,991
- Right? Yeah.

285
00:12:05,991 --> 00:12:07,026
And did they think
I wasn't

286
00:12:07,026 --> 00:12:08,227
going to call it out?

287
00:12:08,227 --> 00:12:08,961
It's like...

288
00:12:08,961 --> 00:12:10,362
- I don't know. You know.

289
00:12:10,362 --> 00:12:11,464
- Did you look back and

290
00:12:11,464 --> 00:12:14,834
see what happened in 2020
and the media that this,

291
00:12:15,434 --> 00:12:19,071
that censorship of my work
garnered?

292
00:12:19,438 --> 00:12:22,341
They are so lucky that

293
00:12:22,341 --> 00:12:25,878
the frickin pandemic came
around because, you know,

294
00:12:26,178 --> 00:12:27,980
I think the story
would have kept going.

295
00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:30,983
It was starting to get
national legs.

296
00:12:31,083 --> 00:12:33,519
- Let, let let's
let's go back to 2020.

297
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:33,819
Okay.

298
00:12:33,819 --> 00:12:35,121
First of all,
when were you

299
00:12:35,121 --> 00:12:36,622
commissioned
to do this work?

300
00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:38,057
- I guess

301
00:12:38,057 --> 00:12:41,060
it must have
been at the end of 2019.

302
00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:44,997
I was commissioned
to put up a mural

303
00:12:44,997 --> 00:12:49,301
commemorating,
executive order,

304
00:12:49,301 --> 00:12:49,969
the signing of

305
00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:51,871
Executive 9066,

306
00:12:51,871 --> 00:12:54,006
which allowed the mass
incarceration

307
00:12:54,006 --> 00:12:55,174
of Japanese-Americans

308
00:12:55,174 --> 00:12:56,041
on the West Coast.

309
00:12:56,041 --> 00:12:56,742
- And how did that

310
00:12:56,742 --> 00:12:59,445
commissioning
all come about?

311
00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:01,781
- A group of Asian

312
00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:04,784
American faculty and staff

313
00:13:04,984 --> 00:13:08,854
came together and decided
that they wanted

314
00:13:08,854 --> 00:13:12,892
to do something to honor
that day, you know, and to

315
00:13:12,892 --> 00:13:16,028
provide education about it
for their students.

316
00:13:17,429 --> 00:13:21,066
- And how long did it take
you to do the mural

317
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:23,335
or come up with the idea
of the mural?

318
00:13:23,335 --> 00:13:24,870
I mean, or did
you pretty much know

319
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:26,138
what you wanted to do?

320
00:13:26,138 --> 00:13:26,906
- Well, they knew

321
00:13:26,906 --> 00:13:28,207
because I had already put

322
00:13:28,207 --> 00:13:32,211
up, an almost identical
version at Densho

323
00:13:32,645 --> 00:13:35,648
and it, the mural

324
00:13:36,315 --> 00:13:39,485
at that time
consisted of a large,

325
00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:43,589
bond paper output

326
00:13:43,589 --> 00:13:48,327
of a very poignant
Dorothea Lange photo

327
00:13:48,727 --> 00:13:52,498
that she took of a family
going into

328
00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:54,433
one of the preliminary
concentration

329
00:13:54,433 --> 00:13:56,802
camps in California,
Turlock, California.

330
00:13:56,802 --> 00:13:58,137
I think.

331
00:13:58,137 --> 00:14:01,607
And I,
I had zoomed in on these

332
00:14:01,607 --> 00:14:04,910
two children, a brother
and sister by appearances.

333
00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:07,513
We don't know
their names still.

334
00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:12,251
And they're very
frightened faces and just

335
00:14:13,185 --> 00:14:14,787
the youth of them.

336
00:14:14,787 --> 00:14:16,722
- Right. Yeah.

337
00:14:16,722 --> 00:14:19,458
And so you went through
the process of doing this?

338
00:14:19,458 --> 00:14:22,361
The the mural went up.

339
00:14:22,361 --> 00:14:24,897
But what? Where in the campus was that originally?

340
00:14:26,398 --> 00:14:28,167
- Right by the cafeteria.

341
00:14:28,167 --> 00:14:29,368
There's a fountain there

342
00:14:29,368 --> 00:14:30,836
so that there's a it's
a courtyard.

343
00:14:30,836 --> 00:14:33,505
It's a good,
prominent place.

344
00:14:33,505 --> 00:14:36,909
I also put up a banner
that said 

345
00:14:36,909 --> 00:14:37,710
Never Again Is Now,

346
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:39,845
which is a slogan
that the communities,

347
00:14:39,845 --> 00:14:42,081
I think Jewish-American
community uses it also.

348
00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:43,249
So it's okay.

349
00:14:43,249 --> 00:14:45,584
We can share a slogan.

350
00:14:45,584 --> 00:14:47,486
- So it was a pretty
trafficked area.

351
00:14:47,486 --> 00:14:49,588
People would have seen it
and it was tall.

352
00:14:49,588 --> 00:14:53,325
- It was
tall, like 11ft tall.

353
00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:54,526
Yeah.

354
00:14:54,526 --> 00:14:58,264
And and then as as

355
00:14:58,264 --> 00:15:01,567
I always do, there was
a piece of interpretation.

356
00:15:02,134 --> 00:15:02,434
Right?

357
00:15:02,434 --> 00:15:04,136
Just,

358
00:15:04,136 --> 00:15:08,641
you know, maybe a roughly
11 by 17 talking about,

359
00:15:09,408 --> 00:15:14,013
the Japanese-American
community in Bellevue.

360
00:15:14,046 --> 00:15:17,449
Just a very brief
history.

361
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:22,821
And calling out the name
of the so-called godfather

362
00:15:22,821 --> 00:15:24,523
of Bellevue,
Miller Freeman,

363
00:15:24,523 --> 00:15:29,628
because he had long been
an anti-Japanese agitator

364
00:15:29,795 --> 00:15:31,330
on the Eastside.

365
00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:34,934
And, after Pearl
Harbor was bombed,

366
00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:38,570
he really went in whole
hog for the removal

367
00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:41,273
of Japanese-American
people.

368
00:15:41,273 --> 00:15:43,175
- And property.

369
00:15:44,209 --> 00:15:47,346
He wasn't
that part of this?

370
00:15:47,346 --> 00:15:49,114
- That is part of it.

371
00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:52,117
It is surmised
that there was

372
00:15:52,117 --> 00:15:57,122
a large land grab,
because all of a sudden,

373
00:15:57,156 --> 00:15:59,458
you know, the
the Freeman family

374
00:15:59,458 --> 00:16:02,494
then owned most of what
is now downtown Bellevue.

375
00:16:03,662 --> 00:16:08,867
- So did
they respond quickly

376
00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:11,136
once that was put up

377
00:16:11,136 --> 00:16:12,371
to complain about it?

378
00:16:12,371 --> 00:16:16,508
Or did the college itself
and its administrators

379
00:16:16,508 --> 00:16:19,745
at the time
decide on their own to,

380
00:16:19,745 --> 00:16:23,682
eliminate that sentence
from the explanation

381
00:16:24,049 --> 00:16:27,052
there of the, the mural?

382
00:16:27,486 --> 00:16:30,856
- It seems that the college
administrators

383
00:16:30,856 --> 00:16:34,159
themselves decided,
because it was one of the

384
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:37,663
vice presidents herself,
who walked up to it

385
00:16:38,163 --> 00:16:41,233
in broad daylight with her
little jar of white out

386
00:16:42,468 --> 00:16:44,403
and whited it out
right there. 

387
00:16:44,403 --> 00:16:47,239
SHe whited it out 
with white out.

388
00:16:47,239 --> 00:16:48,574
- How long after it went up?

389
00:16:48,574 --> 00:16:50,376
Did that happen?

390
00:16:50,376 --> 00:16:53,045
- Oh my gosh,
it was just a few days.

391
00:16:53,045 --> 00:16:55,781
- Wow.

392
00:16:55,781 --> 00:16:58,784
And when did you find out
about that?

393
00:16:59,485 --> 00:17:02,755
- I was in Tacoma at the
Northwest Detention Center

394
00:17:04,223 --> 00:17:06,125
at a protest.

395
00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:07,326
- Very apropos.

396
00:17:07,326 --> 00:17:11,163
- And one of the Bellevue
College administrators,

397
00:17:11,163 --> 00:17:13,999
whom I had worked with
to put it up, told me,

398
00:17:13,999 --> 00:17:16,001
and I was like, what?

399
00:17:16,001 --> 00:17:17,369
- Oh, wow.

400
00:17:17,369 --> 00:17:18,203
- Yeah.

401
00:17:18,203 --> 00:17:21,573
Yeah, we were having,
a Day of Remembrance

402
00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:24,143
rally at the Northwest
Detention Center

403
00:17:24,143 --> 00:17:26,445
in solidarity
with folks inside.

404
00:17:28,213 --> 00:17:29,148
- Then what happened?

405
00:17:29,148 --> 00:17:32,151
Would you do that after
you found out about this?

406
00:17:33,786 --> 00:17:34,787
Did you have the same look

407
00:17:34,787 --> 00:17:37,790
that you have in your face
right now?

408
00:17:40,426 --> 00:17:42,728
- I was, you know,

409
00:17:42,728 --> 00:17:43,962
it was hard.

410
00:17:43,962 --> 00:17:46,965
I, I went through

411
00:17:47,499 --> 00:17:51,770
many moments of confusion
and not understanding.

412
00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:54,773
I got a lot of advice
from people

413
00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:58,677
in the community.

414
00:17:59,178 --> 00:18:01,814
About what to do.

415
00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:05,384
I can't

416
00:18:05,384 --> 00:18:08,387
remember what
the timeline was, but we

417
00:18:08,487 --> 00:18:12,157
we decided that
there needed to be

418
00:18:12,157 --> 00:18:15,994
a community, driven

419
00:18:16,295 --> 00:18:19,264
ceremony there because

420
00:18:19,298 --> 00:18:22,768
after it sort of
leaked to the press

421
00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:25,771
and it was, you know,
that it was a good story.

422
00:18:27,206 --> 00:18:29,308
The Bellevue College,

423
00:18:29,308 --> 00:18:32,644
board wanted
to kind of take control

424
00:18:32,644 --> 00:18:37,349
of the narrative and a
bunch of people helped me

425
00:18:38,217 --> 00:18:40,853
get behind
creating our own ceremony

426
00:18:40,853 --> 00:18:44,923
where we talked about it
and our survivors came

427
00:18:44,923 --> 00:18:46,925
and we involved, Bellevue

428
00:18:46,925 --> 00:18:48,760
College
Students of Color and...

429
00:18:49,828 --> 00:18:52,297
Yeah, and
then I put up a new sign.

430
00:18:52,297 --> 00:18:54,299
- But you were at the
initial ceremony, right?

431
00:18:54,299 --> 00:18:56,135
When they put it up?

432
00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,136
- There was no ceremony.

433
00:18:57,136 --> 00:18:57,936
I just put it up.

434
00:18:57,936 --> 00:18:58,604
- You just put it up.

435
00:18:58,604 --> 00:18:59,238
- Oh, yeah.

436
00:18:59,238 --> 00:19:01,206
There was no
there was no ceremony

437
00:19:01,206 --> 00:19:02,674
like there's
going to be this time.

438
00:19:02,674 --> 00:19:06,478
It was just, you know,
I eventually got.

439
00:19:06,478 --> 00:19:07,846
Yeah,
it was just a few thousand

440
00:19:07,846 --> 00:19:09,882
bucks and me and my buddy

441
00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:12,885
Alexis were on a ladder
putting it up.

442
00:19:14,086 --> 00:19:16,054
- So in the end,
what happened

443
00:19:16,054 --> 00:19:17,489
was that
the administrators

444
00:19:17,489 --> 00:19:19,658
involved the president
at the time,

445
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:22,327
who was, Jerry Weber.

446
00:19:22,327 --> 00:19:23,729
I think I get that right.

447
00:19:23,729 --> 00:19:25,831
Sure.
We went now. Yeah. Okay.

448
00:19:25,831 --> 00:19:28,567
And the vice president,
Gail Colston Barge,

449
00:19:28,567 --> 00:19:30,702
ended up
resigning their positions,

450
00:19:30,702 --> 00:19:32,938
because of this
and the outrage

451
00:19:32,938 --> 00:19:34,206
that happened after that.

452
00:19:35,941 --> 00:19:39,044
So how did it come
about to do a rededication

453
00:19:39,244 --> 00:19:42,247
and to where we are now?

454
00:19:44,416 --> 00:19:46,084
Six years
later, six years later,

455
00:19:46,084 --> 00:19:46,552
by the way.

456
00:19:46,552 --> 00:19:48,020
- Six years later.

457
00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:51,023
Yeah, I had gone back
and talked on campus.

458
00:19:51,423 --> 00:19:54,693
When Gary, Governor

459
00:19:54,693 --> 00:19:57,696
Gary Locke
was the interim president,

460
00:19:57,796 --> 00:20:01,934
I think he made a lot of
changes on that campus.

461
00:20:01,934 --> 00:20:02,834
And then I think there

462
00:20:02,834 --> 00:20:06,405
were other people who have
always been, behind,

463
00:20:06,905 --> 00:20:08,574
behind the project.

464
00:20:08,574 --> 00:20:11,543
I think there's been
sort of,

465
00:20:11,543 --> 00:20:15,247
a consistent call
for more ethnic studies.

466
00:20:15,247 --> 00:20:20,686
It's a lot of that... 
education has been cut

467
00:20:20,752 --> 00:20:23,689
from Bellevue College,
and I can't really speak

468
00:20:23,689 --> 00:20:26,692
to the particulars
of that.

469
00:20:27,826 --> 00:20:28,260
Yeah.

470
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:32,097
So I'm not sure who
actually made the push.

471
00:20:32,197 --> 00:20:37,669
But I
found myself invited to

472
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:41,673
put up
a permanent version of it.

473
00:20:41,673 --> 00:20:43,408
- So where are we
now? Where?

474
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:44,543
Where is it now?

475
00:20:44,543 --> 00:20:47,412
Where
is the permanent version?

476
00:20:47,412 --> 00:20:50,182
And where folks
can see it?

477
00:20:50,182 --> 00:20:51,416
On the campus.

478
00:20:51,416 --> 00:20:55,053
- It's being fabricated
now, and

479
00:20:56,355 --> 00:20:59,358
I was thinking about

480
00:20:59,558 --> 00:21:02,561
not having
the unveiling ceremony

481
00:21:02,828 --> 00:21:06,598
because I just felt like
I was fetching

482
00:21:06,598 --> 00:21:10,535
and stepping for lack
of better terminology.

483
00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:14,906
Some younger people won't
know what that means.

484
00:21:15,207 --> 00:21:18,176
Okay.

485
00:21:18,176 --> 00:21:19,911
- I'm sure
if they look to someone

486
00:21:19,911 --> 00:21:21,747
a little older,
my age range,

487
00:21:21,747 --> 00:21:23,815
someone will tell them
what that means. And.

488
00:21:23,815 --> 00:21:26,551
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but yeah, yeah.

489
00:21:26,551 --> 00:21:29,655
- So yes, this
this unveiling ceremony

490
00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:34,059
is slated to happen on
May 14th at 2 p.m..

491
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,062
- Are you
are you saying you're not

492
00:21:37,062 --> 00:21:38,163
going to be
there, are you?

493
00:21:38,163 --> 00:21:39,631
- No,
I'm going to be there.

494
00:21:39,631 --> 00:21:40,465
I agreed to be there.

495
00:21:40,465 --> 00:21:41,400
- Okay.

496
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,368
- I was thinking of not.
I was thinking of just

497
00:21:44,603 --> 00:21:45,804
calling it off.

498
00:21:45,804 --> 00:21:50,042
But after they finally
issued this statement,

499
00:21:50,575 --> 00:21:51,576
I'm going to go forward.

500
00:21:51,576 --> 00:21:51,777
I'm going

501
00:21:51,777 --> 00:21:55,647
and I'm going to
go forward because I love

502
00:21:55,747 --> 00:21:57,182
I love my community.

503
00:21:57,182 --> 00:22:00,185
You know, this is a
this is a

504
00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:03,055
a community
that was devastated

505
00:22:03,055 --> 00:22:04,256
during the war, right?

506
00:22:04,256 --> 00:22:07,359
Like lost property, lost,

507
00:22:08,226 --> 00:22:11,229
lost their pets, lost

508
00:22:11,463 --> 00:22:14,499
all of the things
that they had worked for.

509
00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:18,337
You know, many sense
like my family

510
00:22:18,337 --> 00:22:19,237
coming at the turn of the

511
00:22:19,237 --> 00:22:21,606
century,
right to this country

512
00:22:21,606 --> 00:22:25,744
and helping to build
things, like the railroad

513
00:22:25,744 --> 00:22:29,948
and dig out to our tree
stumps and grow produce.

514
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:34,453
But,

515
00:22:34,453 --> 00:22:38,423
you know, this community,
despite being

516
00:22:39,725 --> 00:22:43,829
unconstitutionally
rounded up and jailed for

517
00:22:44,463 --> 00:22:45,330
up to three

518
00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:49,234
and a half years, like
my paternal family was,

519
00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:53,105
made it, for the
most part, made it out.

520
00:22:53,105 --> 00:22:54,840
And, enough

521
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,507
people came back

522
00:22:55,507 --> 00:22:58,610
to the Seattle area
that I got to grow up

523
00:22:58,610 --> 00:23:00,045
in a Japanese-American
community.

524
00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:03,048
It was never the same
anyway, right?

525
00:23:03,515 --> 00:23:07,386
But, as you know, because
because you like to

526
00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:10,889
you like to run with
the Japanese-Americans.

527
00:23:11,356 --> 00:23:13,258
It's it is a very vibrant.

528
00:23:13,258 --> 00:23:14,593
- I’m a very diverse guy

529
00:23:14,593 --> 00:23:16,128
that likes to be
with everybody.

530
00:23:16,128 --> 00:23:18,630
- Heck, yeah.
We're so glad.

531
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:20,432
We're so glad.

532
00:23:20,432 --> 00:23:21,767
- Well,
but yeah, you can also

533
00:23:21,767 --> 00:23:25,103
see your work
that is in the CID.

534
00:23:25,804 --> 00:23:28,807
It's in the area that used
to be the Japantown

535
00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:32,310
and which again,
some of your work there,

536
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:33,612
the mural that you created

537
00:23:33,612 --> 00:23:34,713
there has also been

538
00:23:34,713 --> 00:23:37,249
the target of people
defacing it.

539
00:23:37,249 --> 00:23:38,417
And it's had to be

540
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,085
it seems to be
an ongoing thing

541
00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:42,120
that we're we have to deal
with this stuff.

542
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:43,688
One thing I do
want to say is that

543
00:23:43,688 --> 00:23:45,257
I do want to give you

544
00:23:45,257 --> 00:23:47,459
a shout out, and
everybody else within the,

545
00:23:48,994 --> 00:23:50,662
the Japanese
community, the

546
00:23:50,662 --> 00:23:51,830
Japanese
American community

547
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:53,465
and the Asian community
overall

548
00:23:53,465 --> 00:23:55,233
that have been there
to support,

549
00:23:55,233 --> 00:23:59,004
the Latino community
and La Resistencia,

550
00:23:59,004 --> 00:24:00,672
Resistencia
in, in the work

551
00:24:00,672 --> 00:24:04,176
that they've been doing, 
to, you know,

552
00:24:05,177 --> 00:24:07,245
point out
the issues of those

553
00:24:07,245 --> 00:24:08,613
that have been
incarcerated

554
00:24:08,613 --> 00:24:10,148
and being detained at,

555
00:24:10,148 --> 00:24:13,151
like the Northwest 
Detention Center in Tacoma

556
00:24:13,485 --> 00:24:15,086
and as well as those

557
00:24:15,086 --> 00:24:17,022
that have been,
you know, deported.

558
00:24:17,022 --> 00:24:20,025
And let's face it,
we are in a time when,

559
00:24:20,425 --> 00:24:22,561
what happened back
in, in the 40s

560
00:24:22,561 --> 00:24:24,095
and Japanese-Americans
in this country.

561
00:24:24,095 --> 00:24:26,031
But, you know, Latinos
in this country

562
00:24:26,031 --> 00:24:29,668
have actually lost lives
in this process.

563
00:24:29,768 --> 00:24:31,436
So I don't think that
we can forget

564
00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:33,605
forget that,
that part of it at all.

565
00:24:33,605 --> 00:24:34,639
So I think,

566
00:24:34,639 --> 00:24:36,741
I hope that people
will realize that

567
00:24:36,741 --> 00:24:40,779
and speak out about it
because, you know, it's

568
00:24:41,012 --> 00:24:44,382
this is not American,
American or America.

569
00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:47,252
I don't think so.
Yeah. Right.

570
00:24:47,252 --> 00:24:48,553
So where are we stand now?

571
00:24:48,553 --> 00:24:50,522
You're going
to go to the ceremony.

572
00:24:50,522 --> 00:24:54,125
At least the statement
has come out,

573
00:24:54,493 --> 00:24:58,230
about what had happened
in, after the word

574
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:59,831
got out about rededication

575
00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:03,969
and that that racist
voicemail, yeah.

576
00:25:04,803 --> 00:25:06,037
What now?

577
00:25:08,306 --> 00:25:09,875
Well, what
do you want from people?

578
00:25:09,875 --> 00:25:12,010
I guess it would be
watching this podcast,

579
00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:13,445
understanding
what has happened

580
00:25:13,445 --> 00:25:14,779
and why you're upset.

581
00:25:14,779 --> 00:25:16,481
- I don't want anyone's
pity.

582
00:25:16,481 --> 00:25:18,783
I but I really want people
to understand

583
00:25:18,783 --> 00:25:21,786
the work that I'm doing
right is to talk about

584
00:25:21,987 --> 00:25:25,891
is to bring light
to this piece of history

585
00:25:26,224 --> 00:25:29,194
that has

586
00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:32,197
consistently been

587
00:25:33,064 --> 00:25:34,733
under taught,

588
00:25:34,733 --> 00:25:39,504
a little bit of raised,
you know, by design

589
00:25:39,504 --> 00:25:40,705
of the
American government,

590
00:25:40,705 --> 00:25:42,374
because Americans
don't like to feel bad

591
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:45,010
and don't like to learn
from their mistakes,

592
00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:48,013
just like Bellevue
College.

593
00:25:48,046 --> 00:25:50,615
And I, you know,
I think we should

594
00:25:50,615 --> 00:25:53,451
I think we should of,
like, look at it all.

595
00:25:53,451 --> 00:25:58,356
And I think that it would
behoove us all

596
00:25:59,157 --> 00:26:01,626
to really make that
connection.

597
00:26:01,626 --> 00:26:02,794
Chattel slavery,

598
00:26:02,794 --> 00:26:03,662
Indian boarding

599
00:26:03,662 --> 00:26:06,665
school, Japanese-American
incarceration.

600
00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:09,568
What's happening with
Trump's ICE right now?

601
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:11,736
As you said, the Northwest
Detention Center.

602
00:26:11,736 --> 00:26:13,438
We're also doing work
at the King

603
00:26:13,438 --> 00:26:14,272
County Airport,

604
00:26:14,272 --> 00:26:16,441
which is where these
support flights

605
00:26:16,441 --> 00:26:17,342
are flying out.

606
00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:19,444
From four times a week.

607
00:26:19,444 --> 00:26:22,514
More than 5000 people
were deported last year.

608
00:26:22,747 --> 00:26:25,584
And, you know, the King
County taxpayers

609
00:26:25,584 --> 00:26:29,054
are paying for it
financially and morally.

610
00:26:29,087 --> 00:26:30,221
Like this is on our heads

611
00:26:30,221 --> 00:26:32,791
just because what didn't
what went on in

612
00:26:32,791 --> 00:26:35,226
Minneapolis
hasn't happened yet.

613
00:26:35,226 --> 00:26:36,328
Here.

614
00:26:36,328 --> 00:26:36,561
Yeah.

615
00:26:36,561 --> 00:26:39,364
Doesn't
mean that ICE isn't here.

616
00:26:39,364 --> 00:26:40,398
- Oh, ICE is here.

617
00:26:40,398 --> 00:26:41,066
There's
no doubt about that.

618
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:42,033
- ICE is here.

619
00:26:42,033 --> 00:26:43,335
- Yeah, they are here.

620
00:26:43,335 --> 00:26:45,870
And it could be
you know what.

621
00:26:45,870 --> 00:26:46,605
What kind of level.

622
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:49,908
And could it be like
Minneapolis?  Possibly.

623
00:26:50,308 --> 00:26:53,311
We don't know that yet,
but we could very much be.

624
00:26:53,478 --> 00:26:57,315
I'm actually taken by the
the poster that you have

625
00:26:57,315 --> 00:26:59,351
or the behind you
that says,

626
00:26:59,351 --> 00:27:02,487
“What kind of ancestors do
we want to be?”

627
00:27:02,887 --> 00:27:03,955
I think that that's

628
00:27:03,955 --> 00:27:07,025
very apropos in our
conversation right now.

629
00:27:07,325 --> 00:27:09,694
I also want to point out
the fact that,

630
00:27:09,694 --> 00:27:11,496
this country will,

631
00:27:11,496 --> 00:27:12,464
is changing,

632
00:27:12,464 --> 00:27:13,932
which, you know,

633
00:27:13,932 --> 00:27:14,699
people of color

634
00:27:14,699 --> 00:27:16,167
are going to be
the majority,

635
00:27:16,167 --> 00:27:18,370
which I'm sure
we're not going anywhere.

636
00:27:18,370 --> 00:27:22,173
So that that's something
to to remember and to say

637
00:27:22,607 --> 00:27:23,341
one final word.

638
00:27:23,341 --> 00:27:24,643
Got any last things to say

639
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:25,944
just to
the folks out there?

640
00:27:28,813 --> 00:27:31,249
Come to your rededication?

641
00:27:31,249 --> 00:27:31,983
- Yeah.

642
00:27:31,983 --> 00:27:35,920
Let's flood the campus and
and see each other

643
00:27:36,454 --> 00:27:37,922
and take care of
each other.

644
00:27:37,922 --> 00:27:41,026
I know I was mostly angry
during this recording,

645
00:27:41,426 --> 00:27:44,863
but I do believe in the
power of community care.

646
00:27:44,963 --> 00:27:47,532
The ancestors. Oops.

647
00:27:47,532 --> 00:27:50,268
Wrong hand.

648
00:27:50,268 --> 00:27:52,604
And there it is.

649
00:27:52,604 --> 00:27:55,140
You know, 
and what we are doing

650
00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:58,143
now is going to determine
the future,

651
00:27:58,376 --> 00:28:00,278
you know,
for the next generations.

652
00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:02,113
And that's
why it's important

653
00:28:02,113 --> 00:28:05,016
for for our humanity.

654
00:28:05,016 --> 00:28:06,251
- Yeah.

655
00:28:06,251 --> 00:28:08,586
All right, Erin Shigaki,
thank you so much

656
00:28:08,586 --> 00:28:10,155
for taking the time
to talk about this.

657
00:28:10,155 --> 00:28:11,156
I think it's important

658
00:28:11,156 --> 00:28:14,159
to talk about this
because of what happened

659
00:28:14,492 --> 00:28:17,462
six years ago, to remember
how we even got

660
00:28:17,462 --> 00:28:20,465
to this point
of even a rededication,

661
00:28:20,532 --> 00:28:21,966
and also what's happening,

662
00:28:21,966 --> 00:28:24,202
what happened in response
to this,

663
00:28:24,202 --> 00:28:25,236
when the news came out

664
00:28:25,236 --> 00:28:27,305
that it was going
to be rededicated,

665
00:28:27,305 --> 00:28:30,275
and the fact that 
there are still,

666
00:28:30,475 --> 00:28:33,278
some hateful voices
out there, unfortunately.

667
00:28:33,278 --> 00:28:34,612
But if we don't address
that,

668
00:28:34,612 --> 00:28:36,448
I don't think
we'll make any progress.

669
00:28:36,448 --> 00:28:39,117
So thanks for taking
the time to talk to me.

670
00:28:39,117 --> 00:28:40,051
All right.

671
00:28:40,051 --> 00:28:40,985
- Thanks for having me.

672
00:28:40,985 --> 00:28:42,220
- All right, take a deep breath

673
00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:44,289
and give me that smile
that you usually have.

674
00:28:44,289 --> 00:28:45,657
There you go. 

675
00:28:45,657 --> 00:28:47,225
- Okay,  let's go to lunch now.

676
00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:47,592
- Okay.

677
00:28:48,727 --> 00:28:50,195
Erin Shigaki, thank you so much.

678
00:28:50,195 --> 00:28:57,702
[♪♪]